New Beta C.O.R.E. v0.6 Discussion Thread

unmerged(6537) · Oct 11, 2003

Minor Issues

Playing as Germany...C.O.R.E. .60 1936 campaign.

Took out Poland in Sept 39
Took out Britain in Nov 39 to Jan 40.
Normal takeout of France summer 40.

Some thoughts...

Event... Allies disrupt German supply lines

I have had the event "allies disrupt Germany shipping ... something or other" about five or six times now and in MHO this event needs to be modified to not trigger IF Britain is taken out (or at least not trigger as often).

Britain and France have NO navies , I was so ticked off I cheated and looked. The USA is not at war ,with Germany (who's once British navy rules the Atlantic , Baltic and Med) and besides I had shut down all international trade at game start.

I really think that in the event of Britain being occupied the Empire would not be able to hold together , that India and British controlled South East Asia would go into rebellion for independence and that generally she would sue for peace at any cost. Churchill's speeches not withstanding let alone

USA AI

The USA is conducting invasions of Japan with 20 divisions mixed and 2 tac air units and also of Japan occupied China with 15 mixed divisions but... she is maintaining a Washington DC garrison of 139 armor/mech/motor inf/inf ... with NO transports at all on the east coast and no west coast garrisons to speak of (one infantry unit in LA).
Makes some sense if she was at war with Germany but not if she is only at war with Japan so I guess a USA Garrison AI - no war with Germany script is needed to cover this.

USA Fighters Garrison AI and Fighter transport in general.

For some reason the USA AI has 29 fighter squardons in Minn and no where else. I have seen this scenerio many times before.
She badly needs them on the Pacific islands but...the AI seems to have no clue with what to do with USA air squads and stacks them in central USA .
Does the garrison AI cover air units?

Anyway...
We sure need your best brains working on how to transport air units over seas.
For Humans and the AI. (Canada AI also)

Humans can use carriers but in real life we flew most of them overseas though Greenland / Iceland and shipped the rest on transports. (note I have never tried this routing in a game with with improved air units so perhaps they can reach Britain that way. )
Still... how about new tech for air called "drop tanks",
and or allow air squads to load on transports and unload in ports with zero org when on the transport and when they arrive in port.

Air units rebasing...
I don't think you C.O.R.E. guys can mod this but as you make the game AI better a minor error of an air unit rebasing rather than tac bombing in the midst of a crutial not yet decided battle can spell diaster for a game.

If you guys could mode "rebasing" to be a selectable item only...oh how wonderfull that would be.

The C.O.R.E. game is still super , and all we ever play now.

Quite a few mysterious, unexplained CTD and a few deadly lockups requiring more frequent autosaves but the AI fights hard and aggressively making solo/LAN multi games much more interesting and fun.

Keep up the excellent work.

Budgie
(official member of the C.O.R.E. fanclub.)

and a PS to a long winded post

IS there a thread explaining the .61 mod changes?

saintsup · Oct 11, 2003

Re: Minor Issues

Originally posted by Budgie
Humans can use carriers but in real life we flew most of them overseas though Greenland / Iceland and shipped the rest on transports. (note I have never tried this routing in a game with with improved air units so perhaps they can reach Britain that way. )
Still... how about new tech for air called "drop tanks",
and or allow air squads to load on transports and unload in ports with zero org when on the transport and when they arrive in port.

You can ship air unit on transports ?? How do you do that ??

Always thought it was imposible.

unmerged(14683) · Oct 11, 2003

Re: Minor Issues

Originally posted by Budgie
Britain and France have NO navies , I was so ticked off I cheated and looked. The USA is not at war ,with Germany (who's once British navy rules the Atlantic , Baltic and Med) and besides I had shut down all international trade at game start.

I really think that in the event of Britain being occupied the Empire would not be able to hold together , that India and British controlled South East Asia would go into rebellion for independence and that generally she would sue for peace at any cost. Churchill's speeches not withstanding let alone

It's on the way - as far as I know, someone was preparing upadeted version of New Order West for CORE by Yogi (NOE is already there).

Originally posted by Budgie
USA Fighters Garrison AI and Fighter transport in general.

I'm affraid it's hard to mod - AI controlled fighters in HoI perform only defensive missions. Right now, they got strong preference for "bombed areas" so there is a chance, that they will move to Europe/Japan if the US annex any country there...
Maybe 1.06 will solve the problem?

Originally posted by Budgie
Does the garrison AI cover air units?

No.

Originally posted by Budgie
Anyway...
We sure need your best brains working on how to transport air units over seas.
For Humans and the AI. (Canada AI also)

We don't need that for AI - it simply cheats on ranges, so redeploys air units with ease. On the other hand, human players can get "Drop tanks" tech (light air tech tree) or build LR fighters. Military access to Portugal (Azores) also helps...

Originally posted by Budgie
Keep up the excellent work.

Will do!

Steel · Oct 11, 2003

Re: Minor Issues

Originally posted by Budgie
I have had the event "allies disrupt Germany shipping ... something or other" about five or six times now and in MHO this event needs to be modified to not trigger IF Britain is taken out (or at least not trigger as often).

Germany imported resources from the Far East, South America, Spain etc. As long as she is at war with any nation there is a possibility for transport ships to be captured and destroyed. I'll look at taking out some of the events if Britain is annexed or puppetted, but I will not disable them altogether.

The USA is conducting invasions of Japan with 20 divisions mixed and 2 tac air units and also of Japan occupied China with 15 mixed divisions but... she is maintaining a Washington DC garrison of 139 armor/mech/motor inf/inf ... with NO transports at all on the east coast and no west coast garrisons to speak of (one infantry unit in LA).

The Pacific was a naval campaign more than a land campaign. The numbers you quote sound sufficient to me and if I was playing the USA and saw Germany annex the UK and capture the entire British fleet my concern would be a German landing on the East Coast.

Does the garrison AI cover air units?

Click to expand...

Air units are controlled by the bomber section and the only fighter parameter is for what should be protected (IC, rubber etc).

Still... how about new tech for air called "drop tanks",
and or allow air squads to load on transports and unload in ports with zero org when on the transport and when they arrive in port.

Code:

application = { # Drop Tanks
			id = 10977
			name = "Drop Tanks"
			desc = "Drop Tanks allowed ...(snip)"
			
			required = { 10700 }
			chance = 90
			cost = 12
			time = 150
			neg_offset = 30
			pos_offset = 60
			
			effects = {
				command = { type = range which = fighter when = now value = 650 }

IS there a thread explaining the .61 mod changes?

..\Hearts of Iron\mod-Core\readme1.txt

*** v0.61 change history ***
- added correctly named units.bmp and units_small.bmp (bug)
- correct unit names in argentina.inc
- updated units names and commented out leaders in poland.inc
- added renamed tech bitmaps 11516 and 11517 (bug)
- removed 14300 pre-req for 20+mm cannon (bug)
- updated 14006 (line is commented out though - no effect)
- modified 902027 triggers and effects in core_MEast.txt (bug)
- typo correction in land_doctrine.txt
- added pre-reqs in light_aircraft_tech.txt
- added Tritium as pre-req for Tritium testing
- scaled back benefit of nuclear power plants
- changed APDU bonus from artillery to tank
- revised about 300 text.csv entries
- added corrected counter strip bitmap (bug)
- typo/wording fixes for cored_new_order_east.txt
- typo/wording fixes for cored_new_order_misc.txt
- typo/wording fixes for cored_partisan.txt
- typo/wording fixes for core_USSR.txt
- fixed event firing for wrong country in New Order events (bug)
- updated unitnames.csv
- updated most INC files (unit names)
- removed brigade from DD unit in bolted event (bug)
- removed dual cruiser development in spain.inc (bug)
- corrected missing "which" in Italian tech share event (bug)
- fixed typo in uk.inc "colonialss"
- fixed Finnish Winter War assigning wrong ministers (bug)
- added Kismayo to provinces seceded by Italy in surrender event
- added missing bracket to torpedo plane unit file (CTD issue)
- added some divisions to Japanese mobilisation events (balancing)
- removed German transport planes from 1936 OOB
- removed Chinese transport planes from 1936 OOB
- raised strength to 100 for Chinese air units (balancing)
- added two sleepevent commands to core_Japan.txt (bug)
- added tech 4974 (Agrarian Economy) to industry_tech.txt (balancing)
- tech 4101 now deactivates tech 4974 and vice versa (balancing)
- added tech 4974 to 38 countries with 1 to 21 IC (balancing)
- removed ComChi rubber (balancing)
- tweaked supply cost reductions in some techs 4104 (balancing)
- added ground_def_eff +15 to 11001 (balancing)
- added national doctrine ground_def_eff modifiers (balancing)
- reactivated CHC forts (balancing)
- CHI now gets access through CHC after they make peace (balancing)
- AI updates for Spain, Italy, Japan

The Albatross · Oct 11, 2003

Help with installing

Can anyone assist? Trying to install the CORE v 0.6 as per the C.O.R.E website. When I unzip the 1.05c update, the files uzip OK but then I get an error message when I try to install. I am running XP.

Cheers

h345 · Oct 11, 2003

should of gone in the discussion Thread

read the FAQ

Steel · Oct 11, 2003

Re: Help with installing

Originally posted by The Albatross
Can anyone assist? Trying to install the CORE v 0.6 as per the C.O.R.E website. When I unzip the 1.05c update, the files uzip OK but then I get an error message when I try to install. I am running XP.

Cheers

To install v1.05c you just unzip the zip archive into ..\Hearts of Iron (options: over-write original files, extract with sub-directory paths).

SykoNurse · Oct 11, 2003

Originally posted by h345
should of gone in the discussion Thread

read the FAQ

I know, you know, he knows not, we know, most of you know, they know. I´ll merge that anyway.

pimparel · Oct 11, 2003

AI, Lend-Lease, Techs, etc, etc.

Some Thoughts:

* I am playing as Germany on 0.6, and my experience showed that the AI can't protect their beaches properly (I previously appointed a error on Spain AI), but even as I didn?t have Marines or any advanced naval invasion techs, I easily invaded UK Homeland (on ?41) landing on Southport and marching upward in less than 2 weeks with 24inf 12mot 3mec 5fig 2div 6tac. I didn?t even stalled once! I was easier than France. Not to mention Norway. Now I am preparing for USA with 72inf 15arm 15mec 18mot (the hard part is that my navy only have 24 fast TP!!!). The solution might involve construction of more coastal forts, construction of engineer corps and increase the priority of torpedo planes and ships on the English Channel.
Also I annexed URSS, after 3 years of serious fight with a lot of manpower used, but the partisan still triggers and the event didn?t triggered right cause I lost a good part of URSS to Romania, Persia, Tibet, Manchuko and Japan (I also appointed a error on New Order West).

* On ?44 London was suffering with a rain of V1, I never saw German AI, or even myself with V1 on early ?44, you should revamp the rocketry tree to decrease the research time, and build an German AI that sucefully research and use V1 on the english.

* I am also reading Stephen Ambrose ?Citizen Soldiers?, and got some ideas:
1) Camouflage Doctrine or Tech, which increase the ?Air Defense? of the army .
2) With the addition of VHF to Tanks and Fighters increase Dive and Fighter ?Tactical Attack?, due the improvement of Forward Observer communications. And VHF to Ships increase the ?Shore Bombardment?. Pre-Req VHF to Infantry.
3) Like the Canadian event, Germany should have an event called ?The Atlantic Wall?, which in expense of Steel and Supplies the Coastal Forts should be upgraded. I think it should be 3 options: a) Full Atlantic Wall, with lvl 3 costal and lvl 1 AA, b) Partial with lvl 1 coastal, c) We don?t fear the puny Allies. I am currently making this event I might use some help, so later I will post on the New Event thread.
4) Likewise the ?Great Patriotic War? Doctrine, USA AI should have a ?Mass Production Effort?, which reduced the time of construction of Armor, Mech, Mot and Planes.

* Brazil/USA Lend-Lease: Should involve 1 MR fighter unit, 1 Naval Plane, 2-4 DD, supplies, industrial tech, DD tech, infantry and artillery tech and maybe some land doctrines in exchange of military access, joining the Allies and +/- 20 convoy escorts (I don?t know if that could be made). Historically Brazil sent 1 infantry division and 1 MR fighter unit as expeditionary forces, helped with escort convoys and patrolled the Atlantic.

I hope that it may inspire some changes.

unmerged(6537) · Oct 11, 2003

Once again

Steel ...

Copper Nicus (must find out what that means???)...

Saintup...

and rest of CORE team

Thanks Guys....

For listening to moans, considering the impossible ideas,
answering stupid questions and most of all for running this project in the first place.

Regards

Budgie.

"Sink my shipping ...ehh!

Interrupt my party supplies ...ehh!

Spoil my victory celebrations... ehh!

I'LL BURN LONDON TO THE GROUND!"

CommanderCody · Oct 11, 2003

Unholy Alliance

Thanks a lot guys for making this a palatable game.

I recently cranked up a CORE 0.60 game as the USA and picked the toughest options. Since France wasn't Vichy'd (they had numerous divs in the Maginot area) the Germans still hadn't done Barbarossa by Feb. 1942. Thus, to make it more challenging, I put SOV in the Axis in the save file in 2/42. The US joined the Allies on Dec. 7, 1941.

In Dec. 1944 we have the SOVs controlling all of Norway, India, Indochina and Burma, and making good inroads in China. I took JAP easily in early '43 and have some forces in Asia proper trying to hold off the SOVs while I take GER. GER is almost finished, after which I'll go after SOV from the west in a big way. It shouldn't be tough since I've got beaucoups manpower left and 200 mech-A, arm-E, and mtn-E divs (and a lot of free liberty ships) to only 300 or so SOV divs, plus I've got air superiority.

Anyway, I'd like to see this as a choice - a SOV-GER alliance at the time of Von Ribbentrop-Molotov - if you play as an allied country (it'd make it too easy if you played as one of those!). Also, I've seen very little or no cooperation between SOV and GER forces, so perhaps there has to be some additional AI coding to take care of loaning units, moving air forces into the other guy's territory, etc. You guys know better than me. Anyway, just looking for a greater challenge.

Thanks,

CC

unmerged(18202) · Oct 12, 2003

Originally posted by Budgie
For listening to moans, considering the impossible ideas,
answering stupid questions and most of all for running this project in the first place.

There are a lot of rewards in it. Ultimately the chief one, I think, is the realization that today I'll do something that will improve the gaming experience of hundreds--and I am one of the most minor CORE contributors. Steel, Copper, and others are the real gurus.

jkk

MateDow · Oct 12, 2003

Re: AI, Lend-Lease, Techs, etc, etc.

Originally posted by pimparel

4) Likewise the ?Great Patriotic War? Doctrine, USA AI should have a ?Mass Production Effort?, which reduced the time of construction of Armor, Mech, Mot and Planes.

There already is a tech for mass production. They don't need another one. Things sometimes get real cheap already.

* Brazil/USA Lend-Lease: Should involve 1 MR fighter unit, 1 Naval Plane, 2-4 DD, supplies, industrial tech, DD tech, infantry and artillery tech and maybe some land doctrines in exchange of military access, joining the Allies and +/- 20 convoy escorts (I don?t know if that could be made). Historically Brazil sent 1 infantry division and 1 MR fighter unit as expeditionary forces, helped with escort convoys and patrolled the Atlantic.

I hope that it may inspire some changes.

The problem is that I never see Brazil in the war on either side unless someone makes a grab for the rubber (usually me). So unless there is someway to have Brazil consistantly in the allies, there isn't any reason for the event. MDow

hendriks · Oct 12, 2003

172118 Hitlers Birthday Military Parade (by Ghost_dk)
##############################################

event = {
id = 172118
random = no
country = ger

trigger = {
NOT = {
atwar = no
}
}

name = "Hitlers Birthday Parade"
desc = "Each year on his birthday, Hitler held a military parade in Berlin in honor of himself. But of these birthday parades, none will be remembered like the one in 1939. It is said that spectators watched as military personel marched by for six hours straight and while the german people watched in awe of their leader the allies prepared for a war that now seemed closer then ever."

date = { day = 20 month = april year = 1939 }

action_a = {
name = "Happy Birthday"
command = { type = dissent value = -2 }
command = { type = supplies value = -500 }
command = { type = warentry which = FRA value = 3 }
command = { type = warentry which = ENG value = 3 }
}
}

Shouldn't the trigger be ,,,not atwar = yes, instead of not atwar = no?

pimparel · Oct 12, 2003

Re: Re: AI, Lend-Lease, Techs, etc, etc.

Originally posted by MateDow
The problem is that I never see Brazil in the war on either side unless someone makes a grab for the rubber (usually me). So unless there is someway to have Brazil consistantly in the allies, there isn't any reason for the event. MDow

This event is to force Brazil join the allies

JRaup · Oct 12, 2003

Re: Unholy Alliance

Originally posted by CommanderCody
Thanks a lot guys for making this a palatable game.

I recently cranked up a CORE 0.60 game as the USA and picked the toughest options. Since France wasn't Vichy'd (they had numerous divs in the Maginot area) the Germans still hadn't done Barbarossa by Feb. 1942. Thus, to make it more challenging, I put SOV in the Axis in the save file in 2/42. The US joined the Allies on Dec. 7, 1941.

In Dec. 1944 we have the SOVs controlling all of Norway, India, Indochina and Burma, and making good inroads in China. I took JAP easily in early '43 and have some forces in Asia proper trying to hold off the SOVs while I take GER. GER is almost finished, after which I'll go after SOV from the west in a big way. It shouldn't be tough since I've got beaucoups manpower left and 200 mech-A, arm-E, and mtn-E divs (and a lot of free liberty ships) to only 300 or so SOV divs, plus I've got air superiority.

Anyway, I'd like to see this as a choice - a SOV-GER alliance at the time of Von Ribbentrop-Molotov - if you play as an allied country (it'd make it too easy if you played as one of those!). Also, I've seen very little or no cooperation between SOV and GER forces, so perhaps there has to be some additional AI coding to take care of loaning units, moving air forces into the other guy's territory, etc. You guys know better than me. Anyway, just looking for a greater challenge.

Thanks,

CC

There is an option for either Germany or the USSR to propose the Unholy Alliance. It has like a 5% chance of happening, and I've only ever seen it happen once in game. It is the West's worst nightmare, as the combined Russo-German horde is nigh unstoppable, especially if they share techs with each other. It all happens in the Molotov-Ribbentrop event chain.

Russo-German cooperation outside of teh Unholy alliance is problematic. We can't truly simulate the Soviet invasion of Poland for example, as it would make the Allies at war with the USSR. We have expanded the Soviet-German economic deals, which I thik covers the most important aspects at the moment.

saintsup · Oct 12, 2003

Originally posted by Budgie
Once again

Steel ...

Copper Nicus (must find out what that means???)...

Saintup...

I'm very proud to be in the same list as Steel and Copper Nicus but that's not fair. I'm just an ocasional poster here (although I'm reading and playing a lot).

Thanks for the (real) Core Team.

Szun · Oct 12, 2003

Originally posted by hendriks
172118 Hitlers Birthday Military Parade (by Ghost_dk)
##############################################

event = {
id = 172118
random = no
country = ger

trigger = {
NOT = {
atwar = no
}
}

name = "Hitlers Birthday Parade"
desc = "Each year on his birthday, Hitler held a military parade in Berlin in honor of himself. But of these birthday parades, none will be remembered like the one in 1939. It is said that spectators watched as military personel marched by for six hours straight and while the german people watched in awe of their leader the allies prepared for a war that now seemed closer then ever."

date = { day = 20 month = april year = 1939 }

action_a = {
name = "Happy Birthday"
command = { type = dissent value = -2 }
command = { type = supplies value = -500 }
command = { type = warentry which = FRA value = 3 }
command = { type = warentry which = ENG value = 3 }
}
}

Shouldn't the trigger be ,,,not atwar = yes, instead of not atwar = no?

I allready posted that under 'Bugs ' that the event doesnt fire

Kevin Mc Carthy · Oct 12, 2003

0.61MP does not have the Correct US Events

0.61MP does not have the same event file "Core_US.txt" that 0.61 has. Events such as the Einstein Letter are missing. I will add this to the Bug Page on Wiki.

Szun · Oct 12, 2003

very minor issue...

in the event 'expand atlanticwall to denmark' (or similar) wich adds 1 coastal fort to Aarhus and 1 to Kolding....
Kolding has no beach...

New Beta C.O.R.E. v0.6 ***Discussion Thread***

Second Lieutenant

First Lieutenant

HoI2 Shtrafnik

Field Marshal

Major

Major

Field Marshal

Father Theresa

Wargamer Fanatic

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Feature Joneser

CORE Grand Admiral

General

Wargamer Fanatic

Crusty Grognard

First Lieutenant

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Former SF Weapons Sergeant

Major

New Beta C.O.R.E. v0.6 Discussion Thread