New Beta C.O.R.E. v0.6 ***Discussion Thread***

[adnan]

Great mod people, really adds flavour to this (great) game.

I have few questions:

1. Are there events to "prepare" for operations Sealion, Marta (i think this is name, Yugo and Greece included) and Barbarossa? I had event about operation "Fall Weserubung" so I expected Sealion, but nothing. Same for the others. I looked through event files, but couldn't find them there either.

2. Are there any events about partition of Yugoslavia? I've seen some on this forum, but not one in the game. Not even creation of Croatia.

I had few more questions, but it can wait. Once more, I have to say, it is magnificent what you have done here

 

[Chaplain]

Guys, I know this is a touchy subject, but in the interests of the enjoyability of CORE/HOI, I'll bring it up anyway.

Lothos Super AI bundle is just terrific, in concert with CORE. I've been using it regularly since ver 1.3 (of SAI) was released. When playing the Allies, the Axis is MUCH more aggressive and effective, not to mention historical. Last night I fought a furious series of actions in Norway (playing the UK). I was trying to stop or at least seriously hinder Weserebung. Well, I failed miserably. I beat back the Kriegsmarine (though I was bloodied) and I landed 6 divisions in Trondheim, hoping to hold the north, but the AI just bombed the spit out of me with TACs in preparation for a big push, the end of which saw me pulling a 'Dunkirk' (barely) off the coast of Norway while under incessant air attack. It was beautiful.

I've seen the same kinds of things in the Pacific with SAI. Are we taking notes? CORE's AI was definitely an improvement over Vanilla, but the SAI is better still.

What should we expect in 0.7?

 

[Hogar]

1. Are there events to "prepare" for operations Sealion, Marta (i think this is name, Yugo and Greece included) and Barbarossa? I had event about operation "Fall Weserubung" so I expected Sealion, but nothing. Same for the others. I looked through event files, but couldn't find them there either.

2. Are there any events about partition of Yugoslavia? I've seen some on this forum, but not one in the game. Not even creation of Croatia.

Both (Yugoslavia and Greece operations)will happen in CORE 0.7, courtesy of Zerli and his Balkan friends . If you cannot wait for the release then see this... http://www.inet.hr/~ddjanjes/CORE

 

[unmerged(19402)]

So when will Core 7 be released? we're getting antsy

 

[Amadeus]

Quoting, quoting...

Personally, I think "release early, release often" is the way to go. Let us leverage the power of many eyes to spot and correct bugs. It might *temporarily* add more work for dev team, but in the long run we get a better mod faster...

It's actually sort of tradition, that new C.O.R.E. version is released shortly before the vanilla update, but it always was mayor pain in @#%#@ for the team.
Nevertheless, I think the option 2 is reasonable - updating to the 1.06 standard can take some time, and it's perfectly possible, that 1.06 will have minor bugs (like it happened with 1.05) and will need patching as well (so C.O.R.E. will also have to patch those patches )... If we can make good version for 1.05c, let's just do it. It will be much easier to create its modification for 1.06 then.

I second that(either that or im just to lazy right now to write up my own responce )

I'm such a lazy guy !

 

[Rugsucker]

What is the answer to the CTD problem? I'm playing Germany in HOI 1.05, plus 1.05c, CORE v 64 mp, 1008 picpak. It has happened periodically since 1 jan 36 (2-3 times a year). It is now Mar of 1942 and it CTD's every time I reload. I have not checked the events log, but will asap. Also, I tried tweaking my computer and changed what I was doing at the CTD. Any ideas?

 

[Steel]

What is the answer to the CTD problem? I'm playing Germany in HOI 1.05, plus 1.05c, CORE v 64 mp, 1008 picpak. It has happened periodically since 1 jan 36 (2-3 times a year). It is now Mar of 1942 and it CTD's every time I reload. I have not checked the events log, but will asap. Also, I tried tweaking my computer and changed what I was doing at the CTD. Any ideas?

Zip it and mail to steel@melachea1.demon.co.uk.

 

[unmerged(20829)]

So... what do YOU think?

1) Release it right now, never mind bugs and compatibility problems!

2) Release it as soon as it's ready, never mind if it's for 1.05c or 1.06, never mind having to re-install later

3) Release it for 1.06, it's too much hassle to uninstall 1.05c+v0.64, install 1.05c+v0.7, uninstall again and then install 1.06+v0.71

4) Whatever the dev team thinks is better...

I would say release it now as an open beta, so we all can test it and report all the bugs and issues, in this way you would be able to fix all the stuff and have a completely free bug version ready for 1.06.

 

[saintsup]

I would say release it now as an open beta, so we all can test it and report all the bugs and issues, in this way you would be able to fix all the stuff and have a completely free bug version ready for 1.06.

Support that.

And by the way, option 1 with adequate warning give each one of us the opportunity to choose to use option 2 or 3.

 

[unmerged(25407)]

Hi,i have some questions about CORE :

-Why is it possible to research partisan attacks(negative modifier)?Actually its not possible since it needs well in excess of 5000 days to be researched with all electronic techs.....but...it shouldnt be an opiton at all.....

-What is the point of researching superior turret optics?It does not do anything,and does not enable anything.

-What is the point of researching nucleur support organisation?It does not do anything,and does not enable anything.

-Why do supersonic fighters have a lower tatical attack value than early VTOL fighters?

-Why would anyone build naval bombers when they can build torpedoe planes instead?Its like vanilla HOI...why would anyone build torpedoe planes in vanilla HOI,when they can build naval bombers?

-Why is it possible for a few strategic bombers to destroy in excess of 100 ICs?Ive tested it and 5 strategic bombers can destroy 144 ICs(all the ones the province had).Im not sure which model the planes were,i think it was advanced or basic turbojet though.

-Why are AA guns so weak now?Ive seen planes go through 4 layers of fully teched up AA guns(all the computer,AA gun,etc techs resaearched),about 2-4 AA in each layer,and they dont lose a SINGLE plane.Even when they have to go back through that layer again......Ive also sent in stacks of 12 tac bombers into london(level 8 AA) going through portsmouth(level 2 AA) and lose only 20 planes out of 1200.

-What is the point of building cruisers?Ive never understood this.If i want anti-ship i build battleships.Cruisers cant attack subs anymore,so they are not a option for jack-of-all fleets.The only thing it has going for is lower build time and cost....

-What is the point of researching nucleur battleships and carriers?I mean seriously.Right now destroyers are mandatory and they force your fleet to have 8500 km max range.There is no point in putting nucleru battleships,cruisers and carriers into a fleet where the max range is still going to be constrained by the non-nucleur destroyers.Why not save the ICs and use the diesel version instead?

-What is the point of researching and building guided missle battleships?Super battleships do more damage,have more armor,etc,etc.

 

[unmerged(14683)]

Hi,i have some questions about CORE :

-Why is it possible to research partisan attacks(negative modifier)?Actually its not possible since it needs well in excess of 5000 days to be researched with all electronic techs.....but...it shouldnt be an opiton at all.....

This 'technology' is given to the Germany and Japan by the events and simulates small scale partisan activity on the occupied territories. Many countries got this technology blocked, but some can be 'blessed' by the partisans (including USSR for example).

This 'technology' might look a bit confusing, but it was the only way to include effect we tried to achieve in current HoI mechanics.

-What is the point of researching superior turret optics?It does not do anything,and does not enable anything.

Known bug, corrected in new version.

-What is the point of researching nucleur support organisation?It does not do anything,and does not enable anything.

See above.

-Why do supersonic fighters have a lower tatical attack value than early VTOL fighters?

VTOLs are removed from the new version of CORE, those planes are out of the HoI timeline.
Still, the tactical values were right - slow moving VTOL is better tactical attacker, then optimized for speed and dogfight supersonic.

-Why would anyone build naval bombers when they can build torpedoe planes instead?Its like vanilla HOI...why would anyone build torpedoe planes in vanilla HOI,when they can build naval bombers?

That's why we totally changed whole air units system in new version of CORE. Torpedo plane models will represent mixed carrier based groups of planes (CAG's), while naval bombers - long range, land based patrol planes. Tose planes will now be totally different in the terms of use.

-Why is it possible for a few strategic bombers to destroy in excess of 100 ICs?Ive tested it and 5 strategic bombers can destroy 144 ICs(all the ones the province had).Im not sure which model the planes were,i think it was advanced or basic turbojet though.

It a trade off, without that strategic bombers would be too costly to bother. Also notice, that IC 'destroyed' by the s.bombers is recovered VERY quickly, so the real damage is no that dramatic.

-Why are AA guns so weak now?Ive seen planes go through 4 layers of fully teched up AA guns(all the computer,AA gun,etc techs resaearched),about 2-4 AA in each layer,and they dont lose a SINGLE plane.Even when they have to go back through that layer again......Ive also sent in stacks of 12 tac bombers into london(level 8 AA) going through portsmouth(level 2 AA) and lose only 20 planes out of 1200.

In vanilla HoI AA 5 usually destroys all the planes flying over. It has never happened in reality, so we lowered AA effectiveness to make air war sensible choice (without that change GER players woudn't need any fighters, as AA would kill all the bombers). High AA was also responsible for weird results of tactical bombing.

-What is the point of building cruisers?Ive never understood this.If i want anti-ship i build battleships.Cruisers cant attack subs anymore,so they are not a option for jack-of-all fleets.The only thing it has going for is lower build time and cost....

Crusiers are chaper and less time consumable then BB's. Not all nations are IC mongers like USA/GER, so I see crusiers as sensible choice in many cases. Lets try to look on this problem not from gamer, but historical point of view - why Royal Navy was not combo of BB's and destroyers only?

-What is the point of researching nucleur battleships and carriers?I mean seriously.Right now destroyers are mandatory and they force your fleet to have 8500 km max range.There is no point in putting nucleru battleships,cruisers and carriers into a fleet where the max range is still going to be constrained by the non-nucleur destroyers.Why not save the ICs and use the diesel version instead?

-What is the point of researching and building guided missle battleships?Super battleships do more damage,have more armor,etc,etc.

Some models are in game simply for the sake the fact, that similar models were designed in real life. Nevertheless range problem is well known and it should be corrected in new version of CORE.

 

[Piggy]

So... what do YOU think?

I say option #2.....re-installing isnt a big deal anymore, I've done it more times then I can count now!

(my impatient side says option #1.... )


Oh and BTW: I cant thank you guys enough for CORE!!!.....This game makes me want to call in sick for work and pray for long dark rainy days.....just like the old days

 

[unmerged(19402)]

Is today the magic day of Core 7 release?

 

[Chaplain]

Is today the magic day of Core 7 release?

Oh please oh please oh please ...

 

[Ilkhold]

It is not yet ready to release. There are some persitent problems which will take some time to solve.

 

[Chaplain]

It is not yet ready to release. There are some persitent problems which will take some time to solve.

 

[unmerged(25407)]

I see...so AA was too powerful in vanilla HOI?Isnt there a way to make it..sorta....balanced between now and vanilla HOI?I dont think the allies were willing to send strat bombers through 4 provinces of medium AA levels to hit 1 province of high AA level then back....here you lose a few planes....in reality you would lose a hell of a lot more.

About the ships....i know its historically accurate,but theres totally no reason to build guided missle battleships now.Theres no reason making up a totally new ship class in the file,just so that no one would ever use it.Why not give guided missle battleships same defence as super battleships,but higher air attack?So players have a choice....get a battleship good for sea attack,but more vulnerable to air,or a battleship good at AA,but less useful against warships?

Paritsan attacks : Isnt there a way to make it un-researchable,then have a event "gives" you the tech,then "takes" it away?Sort of like the Soviet's grand patriotic war or whatever that thing is.

Nukes - just wanted to add,is there a way to make nations hit by nukes surrender/sue for peace?On a side note,is there a way to make a nation sue for peace at all?Its simply obscene when i have a country down to less than 5 provicnes,and they still wont sue for peace,even though it means that the war is ended,and they go back to pre-war borders,and is NOT surrendering everything they have to me.I can see hitler refusing to surrender,but logically,if the allies said "Hey lets all stop this war,go back to pre-war borders,no strings attached!" while hitler was down to berlin,i would say hitler would grab the chance to re-build his forces(particularly with the assault rifles,jet fighters,etc) and re-examine his tatics then launch another attack later on.

I for one dont think its remotely realistic that i can turn mainland america into a nucleur wasteland,but they wont surrender,hell they wont even accept a peace proposal,even though i just completely wiped a nation off the map,excluding colonies,puppet states and insignificant islands.

Its completely impossible to re-create the nagasaki/hiroshima situation in HOI....

AI - I noticed that the core AI was sufficiently advanced for the USA to tech up...good job!It was kinda challenging to see USA attacking me with tanks jsut 1 level below mine.However,countries like the UK still cant seem to research techs at all.Its totally obscene when its 1944,all provinces still intact,and still on basic SMG...something like that....

Im not sure if its a bug with HOI or CORE,but in my game,the AI has planes...based out on SEAZONES.They have been sitting there in the seazones for about a year now,0 org,and they dont starve/run out of fuel/etc.Hell you shouldnt even be able to get planes to sit there!I also have USA AI sending troops past 0 infra provinces...without getting starving to death.Last time i tried to did that,i lost an entire 12 div stack in a few days.....

 

[unmerged(14683)]

I see...so AA was too powerful in vanilla HOI?Isnt there a way to make it..sorta....balanced between now and vanilla HOI?I dont think the allies were willing to send strat bombers through 4 provinces of medium AA levels to hit 1 province of high AA level then back....here you lose a few planes....in reality you would lose a hell of a lot more.

And what makes you think that? Losses of allied bombers never were that high as movies/veteran memories might suggest. Let's try to think their way - group of pro's, close friends that were training and fighting together... then on one day few crews does not return. For them it's disaster - they have lost around 100 men, another 100 is wounded... but it's 10 planes (in HoI terms - 10% of the unit strenght). Yet, for ANY military man mission with 10% daily losses is disaster. On the other hand, in HoI you consider similar mission exceptional success. There is serious difference in victory conditions for 'armchair generals' that rarely count losses and real front officers, that count every men (well, in most cases anyway).

About balancing AA - I hope vanilla HoI will have it corrected in the next patch.

About the ships....i know its historically accurate,but theres totally no reason to build guided missle battleships now.Theres no reason making up a totally new ship class in the file,just so that no one would ever use it.Why not give guided missle battleships same defence as super battleships,but higher air attack?So players have a choice....get a battleship good for sea attack,but more vulnerable to air,or a battleship good at AA,but less useful against warships?

Why do you think no one would use it? People got very different approaches to this game - I have seen so many tactics/strategies that I'm pretty sure there is a place for guided missile BB's as well.

Paritsan attacks : Isnt there a way to make it un-researchable,then have a event "gives" you the tech,then "takes" it away?Sort of like the Soviet's grand patriotic war or whatever that thing is.

It is unreaserachable for most of the nations. The whole idea is to not allow to 'wear it off' - as game ends in 1948, there is no chance partisan attacks would stop before this date.

Nukes - just wanted to add,is there a way to make nations hit by nukes surrender/sue for peace?

No.

On a side note,is there a way to make a nation sue for peace at all?Its simply obscene when i have a country down to less than 5 provicnes,and they still wont sue for peace,even though it means that the war is ended,and they go back to pre-war borders,and is NOT surrendering everything they have to me.I can see hitler refusing to surrender,but logically,if the allies said "Hey lets all stop this war,go back to pre-war borders,no strings attached!" while hitler was down to berlin,i would say hitler would grab the chance to re-build his forces(particularly with the assault rifles,jet fighters,etc) and re-examine his tatics then launch another attack later on.

I can be only done by the events (like Bitter Peace one), but it's extremely complicated if we want to create flexible peace solution.

AI - I noticed that the core AI was sufficiently advanced for the USA to tech up...good job!It was kinda challenging to see USA attacking me with tanks jsut 1 level below mine.However,countries like the UK still cant seem to research techs at all.Its totally obscene when its 1944,all provinces still intact,and still on basic SMG...something like that....

Don't worry, in CORE 0.7 you will be the one that have to chase the AI in R&D.

Im not sure if its a bug with HOI or CORE,but in my game,the AI has planes...based out on SEAZONES.They have been sitting there in the seazones for about a year now,0 org,and they dont starve/run out of fuel/etc.Hell you shouldnt even be able to get planes to sit there!I also have USA AI sending troops past 0 infra provinces...without getting starving to death.Last time i tried to did that,i lost an entire 12 div stack in a few days.....

Sorry, HoI issue. I think it's correcte in new in-progress 1.06 patch...

 

[unmerged(25407)]

If HOI was developed enough so that guided missles could sit there and pelt super battleships as they try to close for their 460mm guns,yes guided missle battleships would have a place,but as it is super battleships > guided missle battleships....

 

[unmerged(14683)]

If HOI was developed enough so that guided missles could sit there and pelt super battleships as they try to close for their 460mm guns,yes guided missle battleships would have a place,but as it is super battleships > guided missle battleships....

Those are not guided missile BB's as we now now (cruise missile class), but early attemts to this concept... I'm sure our head of sea department (), MDow can answer on that question on the naval forum.