New Beta C.O.R.E. v0.5 ***Discussion Thread***

[Kevin Mc Carthy]

Originally posted by Raczynski
Why you think that Italy can`t conquer Albania? They do it without much problems in my games If you think that they have problems just gave them 1-2 useful techs (like naval infantry training, land doctrine)

Six games in a row in hands off games they fail the invasion 1.05b & Core 0.532 even when slowing the Albanian build to 1 Infantry Div. and having them not produce costal forts. Straight up, the Italian AI must make a successful landing against 4 dug in Albanian Inf Divs behind a costal fort.

 

[unmerged(18202)]

Okay, I'm not sure why this hasn't ever been proposed, but here's a great change that I suspect would be ridiculously easy to implement:

Slightly modify the names of certain techs so that they are no longer ambiguous. "Basic Pre-War Testing," like "Basic Equipment and Ordinance (sic)," is used in more than one category. Maybe "Basic Pre-War Ground Testing," for example. Something--anything to differentiate it, so that when we're advised of its completion, we don't have to wonder what new branch of research has probably opened up.

My understanding is that the code refers to techs by numbers. Thus, those never need be screwed with for this purpose: just the names. And while we're at it, we can get the spelling of 'Ordnance' right--an 'ordinance' generally means a law.

I will even volunteer to do them, if CORE is willing.

Going further afield, we might also restructure a few names--I'm thinking especially the fighter-related techs--so that they can be read in the box. Looking at your list of what's being researched, you have to wait for the in-game text to display to figure out whether you are researching the engines or the prototype tests.

Simple changes, improvements on the original, and benefits all out of proportion to the labour involved.

jkk

 

[unmerged(13933)]

Very good suggestions jkk! Go ahead and do the necessary modifications.

ps. Welcome back Copper!

 

[unmerged(14683)]

Albania Invasion

To solve Albania invasion problem we should go for standard way of CORE - check historical sources. Until then there is rather hard to understand, why moutain country, hard to reach and nightmare to fight (see - Yugoslavia, WWII and 1990-ties) was subdued by Italy in few days.

As far as know, Albania was seriously dependant on Italian military help. Albanian army was full of Italian advisors and when the war started, most part of albanian armed forces switched sides. Albania has fallen so fast because it lacked determination - which is not represented in HoI and CORE.

Simple event with mutiny (delete 1-2 random units) of those units will tip the balance and AI controlled Albania will fall, while human controlled will still got chance to fight.

BTW, welcome back!

 

[hendriks]

Historical vs challenging

Yes yes, of course you have a point there Steel, but it would be nice to just see an Italy trying an invasion in Greece because they CAN from Albania.
And it would be nice to know that if you are playing Germany, you are limited in your time because Japan is about to go against the USA.
In my current game I had to reload the autosave 3 times before I got rid of that Japan joins the Axis, because if they end up in war against the USSR, the game can be called over and that's just no fun.

Some things I noticed ;

- The USSR AI seems very interested in keeping the Krim and the provinces above, they deployed close to 100 divisions and actually made some headway, it took me half a year to assemble a big force, cut them up and destroy all 100 divisions, while they left other sections practically undefended that I think are indicated as "important", like Stalingrad and Leningrad. Both fell quickly and because the Stalingrad fort magically disappeared when I entered the city and they just defended Leningrad with 1 infantry division..............
Moscow has been lucky because they seem to be the "traffic" area of all those marching up and down divisions, does the Russian AI not use redeploy anymore, you start a battle for Stalingrad and from Murmansk 20 divisions start to move down, all the way to find Stalingrad taken already of course because it took them 3 months......!

I know these are most vanilla HOI problems, but they remain annoying, although the game surprises me from time to time, like they've got me (finally) on the run in North Africa.

I agree about keeping fighter cover in Lille and I had, but not in Lille, but in eindhoven and more in Germany itself. I didn't mind, because I had only 2 divisions there and they did prepare the province for potential invasions, because I can never rebuild the coastal fortresses, but as soon as I reloaded, the infrastructure came back up, but the US had 250 (yes, 250) divisons sitting in New York, (I went to take a look with my subs, who are still way overpowered) and they do not seem to do anything, although their air power is amazing!!

Anyway, we'll see how this will work out, October 43 now and the Wehrmacht is only gowing deeper and deeper into the USSR, because they are building militia/militia/militia and they do counterattack but with militia/militia/militia.

I am almost missing the days that the US would land in force in Italy...........

 

[Generalisimo]

Re: Albania Invasion

Originally posted by Copper Nicus
BTW, welcome back!

welcome back!!

 

[Generalisimo]

Re: Re: Historical vs challenging

Originally posted by Kevin Mc Carthy
Yes, actually I have thought this through. Why are the Italian demands on Albania tied to a specifc date? ;-)

The current situation is that in the two examples you pose, that history never is followed. Albania ALWAYS ends up with 4 divisions dug in behind a coastal fort. The Italian AI can not win. Therefore the occupation of Albania NEVER happens.

A human player wanting to take Albania down a different course can do so.

As far as the US and builds, the current WE affects consumer goods does not model the US economy and the US Defense budget worth a damn. Again, we currently have a predetermined non-historical outcome. Now the ONLY way to get a historical outcome is to have a Human US player that tries not to be ready for war.

Why are we wasting time crafting historical events, unit names, and tank models if the goal is not to make CORE more accurate?

i agree with Steel on that, it is not good to stop Albanian production with that approach.
Instead of that, i preffer Copper approach, it will represent better the historical situation of Albania, rather than putting an invented restriction on them.

 

[Kevin Mc Carthy]

Re: Re: Re: Historical vs challenging

Originally posted by Generalisimo
i agree with Steel on that, it is not good to stop Albanian production with that approach.
Instead of that, i preffer Copper approach, it will represent better the historical situation of Albania, rather than putting an invented restriction on them.

What was the size of the historical Albanian Army at the time of the invasion? http://www.skalman.nu/history/books-review-albaniaatwar.htm at least describes the invasion as a walk over so maybe a mutany would be OK.

I'm not finding a lot of data on the net on the Albanian Army. However, the ai builds 4 infantry divisions and a costal fort by the invasion. The current italian.ai will fail in an invasion of albania.

 

[Generalisimo]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Historical vs challenging

Originally posted by Kevin Mc Carthy
What was the size of the historical Albanian Army at the time of the invasion? http://www.skalman.nu/history/books-review-albaniaatwar.htm at least describes the invasion as a walk over so maybe a mutany would be OK.

I'm not finding a lot of data on the net on the Albanian Army. However, the ai builds 4 infantry divisions and a costal fort by the invasion. The current italian.ai will fail in an invasion of albania.

as far as i know 20.000 men, but under the control of Italy... that's why it was totally a "walk over"...
some text in spanish:

Desde 1920 hasta 1939, Albania se autogobernó pero Ahmet Bei Zogu que representaba la aristocracia se proclamó presidente y más tarde se coronó Rey Zog I en 1928. Zog logró un período de relativa calma y desde 1925 se acerco a la Italia de Mussolini con quien emprendió una estrecha relación.

Al año siguiente firmo un Pacto de Amistad con Italia y en 1927 una alianza militar por 20 años. El Primer Ministro en 1936 era Kostia Kotta. Albania llegó a depender excesivamente de Italia, al extremo que para 1939 controlaba su economía y a las fuerzas armadas. Finalmente Mussolini invadió el país el 7 de Abril de 1939 y el Rey Vittorio Enmanuel III fue nombrado Rey de Albania.

google translation:

From 1920 to 1939, Albania was self governed but Ahmet Bei Zogu that represented the aristocracy proclaimed president and later King Zog I in 1928 crowned itself. Zog obtained a period of relative calm and from 1925 he approached the Italy of Mussolini and undertook one narrow relation.

The following year he signed a Pact of Friendship with Italy and in 1927 a military alliance by 20 years. The Prime minister in 1936 was Kostia Kotta. Albania got to depend excessively on Italy, to the end that in 1939 Italy controlled its economy and the Armed Forces. Finally Mussolini invaded the country the 7 of April of 1939 and King Vittorio Enmanuel III was named King of Albania.

 

[Steel]

One further way of limiting Albanian strength is the reduction of their supply stockpile. They got the basic Paradox treatment (2000 supplies) despite having no units in the OOB and weak industry, this has already been changed in the v0.6 files.

 

[unmerged(18508)]

Porked p-47D?

How-D!!! Been playing the CORE mod this past weekend and I am really enjoying it so far. Of, you know what comes next...

...BUT...

The P-47D seems a wee bit under modeled. Its tactical and air defense stats are worse than the P-40. While the P-40 was a fine plane, there is no way that it could deliver a better tactical punch than the P-47. All across the board it seems like the P-47D was not treated kindly in the stats.

The P-40E could carry only 700 lbs of external stores and had 6 .50 cal machine guns. The P-47D, by comparision, could carry 1500 lbs of external stores and had 8 .50 call machine guns. The P-47D was regularly assigned to the ground support role and was know as the tank buster in the European Theater of Operations. The P-40 was used in ground attack, but only by default when nothing else was available. Additionally, the P-47 was a much better dogfighter that the P-40 and was known to be a highly survivable aircraft.

Don't know if this was the right place for it, but I have a great fondness for the JUG. As it stands in the game, with the exception of speed and range, I have no reason for using the P-47. Additionally, the speed and range improvments over the P-40 are not enough when compared to the loss in tactical ability.

 

[unmerged(18738)]

Steel and Copper's suggestions together should certainly put a crimp on Albania's ability to defend itself.

We are so cruel.

Might want to make this an event file that is triggered only if Albania is an AI country.

-PK

 

[unmerged(18202)]

Originally posted by Icer
Very good suggestions jkk! Go ahead and do the necessary modifications.

Ok. Since this is targeted for CORE use, I'll compile a changes file so that you can look and see what I've done. To whom should this be sent?

The goal is twofold:

a) make it so that you can determine the name of the tech in the build option and progress windows;

b) make it so that any message window advising you of a sharing or discovery uniquely identifies the technology.

A further goal is the correction of spelling and capitalization errors. How soon do I have to have my ass in gear on this for it to be included in 0.6, assuming CORE likes what I've done?

jkk

 

[Steel]

Originally posted by jkkelley
Ok. Since this is targeted for CORE use, I'll compile a changes file so that you can look and see what I've done. To whom should this be sent?

The goal is twofold:

a) make it so that you can determine the name of the tech in the build option and progress windows;

b) make it so that any message window advising you of a sharing or discovery uniquely identifies the technology.

A further goal is the correction of spelling and capitalization errors. How soon do I have to have my ass in gear on this for it to be included in 0.6, assuming CORE likes what I've done?

jkk

The file you primarily need to change is text.csv. You don't need to document the changes step by step, just provide an overview/summary. Send the updated and zipped text.csv to me.

I'd not recommend editing any text files in the ..\mod-CORE\db\ directory.

For any spelling errors and such just post it here country by country or drop me a pm/email. Don't update the files directly.

 

[unmerged(18202)]

Wilco, Steel.

By the way, I'm playing as USSR in March/April 1944, latest everything, and the game seems prone to CTD more than it ever has for me. This has not been a very combat-intensive game, so there are probably more units around than usual. I got it twice in a row after loading the game and sending nine tank armies moving immediately, so the third time I waited a couple days and then moved the tank armies to jumpoff points. That time I got through about two weeks of general war before the CTD.

I think this is an HOI stability bug issue, but I wanted to rule out a CORE issue. I haven't messed with any files except the unitnames.csv; working with copies of everything else. It appears reproducible. Since the USA is at war with Japan but not part of the Allies, it may be that we are seeing variable US war entry points and it causing a CTD (so that we never know what hit us).

jkk

 

[Kevin Mc Carthy]

Originally posted by Steel
One further way of limiting Albanian strength is the reduction of their supply stockpile. They got the basic Paradox treatment (2000 supplies) despite having no units in the OOB and weak industry, this has already been changed in the v0.6 files.

Is this going to be widespread--like for Hati. I hope so!

BTW, I think we should look at starting build capabilities. For example, Hati can build costal subs and mountain divisions. I'm sure Hati couldn't really build any subs and I doubt they could "buy" them on the surplus market. As for mountain troops, there should be a tech to activate them.

 

[Generalisimo]

Originally posted by Kevin Mc Carthy
Is this going to be widespread--like for Hati. I hope so!

BTW, I think we should look at starting build capabilities. For example, Hati can build costal subs and mountain divisions. I'm sure Hati couldn't really build any subs and I doubt they could "buy" them on the surplus market. As for mountain troops, there should be a tech to activate them.

almost all minor countries doesn't have any supplies defined... how much do you recommend?

 

[hendriks]

AI shyness etc.

Some observations from my current game (0.532)

- Subs are still way too strong, don't know what causes this, maybe poor org regain for those always cruising battleships. I had a run in with 7 US ships, 2 aircraft carriers saratoga class, 2 battleships (USS Washington and USS Something) and 3 destroyer groups. I had 4 sub groups, and they were like the most basic of basic, they were the '36 types. The battle raged and I won, some damage to the subs yes, but the US retreated......(and 2 detroyer groups were SUNK)

- The AI is SHY, I've read about it before, seen it with my own eyes now, I have hit rock bottom with MP, but I can still continue to push into Russia, just because their 68+ divisions do not dare to touch my 6 inf. defense line, I am bringing it down carefully but no reaction of the AI, they DO NOT attack and they have overwhelming odds.
Same in North Africa, the 22 UK divs. and 12 international divs in Sidi Barani have come to a complete stop after taking back Egypt in a very good way, but are at a rest for 1 year now!!
I would say that this is problem nr 1, could this be solved by tinkering with the recklessness settings?

- Japan hasn't attempted ANY landings ANYWHERE, although 1 year + in war with everybody, but not an axis member.

- Happy to see that the USA became part of the Allies

/hendriks

 

[unmerged(17179)]

For a challenging game (2 human - Ger/Uk or Ger/RU) which is the best combination of CORE and HoI patch number?

Given the AI issues is it best to play UK or RU as the allies using latest CORE?

Thanks

 

[Kevin Mc Carthy]

Originally posted by Generalisimo
almost all minor countries doesn't have any supplies defined... how much do you recommend?

90 days of supplies, based on Force size, would be a OK guess.

Even today, the US military doesn't have enough ammo and parts for a full blown war for more than 90-120 days. Not I don't have a source to quote, but read the papers about the strectching of the US military.

Also, some simple logical forced trades would help a lot of minors and allow the world economy to function better while allowing a reduction in the starting cushion of resources and supplies. For example, if Hati started with a 12:3, or so, trade steel for rubber and a 4:1 trade for oil it would be set for life as the AI