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Nov 13, 2005
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Well the Rules weve always used say that a Succesfull Sealion should result in an American War Entry. (Common sense) It might not be historical but neither is a Sealion.

a) Italy may enter when Paris is captured and it must be after March 1940.

b) No CW troops in the Med(SA,NZ & and Australia must remain in their home provinces until Italy is in the war).

And yes you should host mike.


**Ras give me a buzz when you get home well see if we can fix your problem.


RULES are located at Edelron's Forum = http://old.ederon.net/forums/Default.aspx?g=posts&t=533
 

unmerged(59421)

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Jul 29, 2006
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Mighty G said:
What was Majors preference.

If Majors preference is Japan, then I should go USA as me and the Major have unfinished business from a while back :cool: SE.
 
Nov 13, 2005
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Axis Comrade said:
If Majors preference is Japan, then I should go USA as me and the Major have unfinished business from a while back :cool: SE.


Not one single game i have EVER played as USA has ever been finished so i wouldnt get your hopes up.
 

mike8472

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Mighty G said:
Well the Rules weve always used say that a Succesfull Sealion should result in an American War Entry. (Common sense) It might not be historical but neither is a Sealion.

a) Italy may enter when Paris is captured and it must be after March 1940.

b) No CW troops in the Med(SA,NZ & and Australia must remain in their home provinces until Italy is in the war).

And yes you should host mike.


**Ras give me a buzz when you get home well see if we can fix your problem.


RULES are located at Edelron's Forum = http://old.ederon.net/forums/Default.aspx?g=posts&t=533

Ok good so its pretty much like our old rules.

I think there is an event for sucessful sealion for US entry anyway.

From a purely historical point of view, the US was not going to enter the war even if the UK fell. Rosovelt was only going to war with germany if directly attacked. That is all in information released by the US government from discussion from that peroid of time.

It is further reinforced that the US never decleared war on Germany even after pearl harbour. It was only Germany declearing war on the USA, had Germany not done so, it is most likely the US would not have waged war on germany until Japan was defeated.

Maybe we need to discuss some rules alittle, maybe find a way to balance it a bit more.

I know from our last games the UK massed all its forces in Uk and France and left asia and more importantl the med empty or nearly so. As the UK player has the advanatage of knowing exactly when italy can join and that unblanaces the game.

I agree with Italy being kept out so the UK isnt gang banged in 1939 but there must be a way to adjust it so there is still suprise for italy and the UK is kept on it toes. At present its too predicatable. Any sugestions?
 

mike8472

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major ball said:
Hello guys
I think mike is back in a week or so. Just finished auctioning the furniture and PC at his house :)

I dont care who I playaltough not keen on Japs..

Im due back late on the 18th. So we could make a start on the 19th say around 7pm or 8pm if thats better for our northern friends.
 

mike8472

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Reading through the rules, I have a problem with the no Japan or USSR war untill 1943.

This should at least be left open for negioation between the players.

It was always Japans option to go north or south. It should be left up to Japan which way they go.

It is similar to UK knowing exactly when Italy will join. The USSR already very strong can mass its entire force against Germany without fear of Japan.

That fear should exist at lest until a few months after barbarrossa.

Russia only moved its many siberian divisions after its spies confirmed in september 1941 that Japan planned to go south and not north against the USSR. The soviet union was craping itself as they thought Japan was going to gang bang them with Germany.

This should at least remain a threat until say this point in the game. Instead of a blanket rule, why not make it Japan must inform the USSR at this point september 1941 wether they intend to attack or not. This would then free up those forces just like history, would force the USSR to defend all its borders at least for the first few months of barbarrossa.

It would make the game less predicatble, saying Japan cant attack russia at all until 1943 simply makes the USSR far to strong and able to know exactly where to mass all there forces and for what times. Its a bit ridiculous that your enemies know exactly when you will attack.

The only main attacks that should been known are danzig start of WWII, Barbarossa and pearl harbour.
 

unmerged(35801)

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Nov 1, 2004
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just my 2 cents.....just use the kahlkin ghol event....is the japs want war thats the time to do it....if not then maybe agree to extend the non aggression pact to a reasonable time....maybe 43 ......
 

unmerged(62373)

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Nov 5, 2006
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mike8472 said:
Reading through the rules, I have a problem with the no Japan or USSR war untill 1943.

This should at least be left open for negioation between the players.

It was always Japans option to go north or south. It should be left up to Japan which way they go.

It is similar to UK knowing exactly when Italy will join. The USSR already very strong can mass its entire force against Germany without fear of Japan.

That fear should exist at lest until a few months after barbarrossa.

Russia only moved its many siberian divisions after its spies confirmed in september 1941 that Japan planned to go south and not north against the USSR. The soviet union was craping itself as they thought Japan was going to gang bang them with Germany.

This should at least remain a threat until say this point in the game. Instead of a blanket rule, why not make it Japan must inform the USSR at this point september 1941 wether they intend to attack or not. This would then free up those forces just like history, would force the USSR to defend all its borders at least for the first few months of barbarrossa.

It would make the game less predicatble, saying Japan cant attack russia at all until 1943 simply makes the USSR far to strong and able to know exactly where to mass all there forces and for what times. Its a bit ridiculous that your enemies know exactly when you will attack.

The only main attacks that should been known are danzig start of WWII, Barbarossa and pearl harbour.

A very German view.
 

unmerged(62373)

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Nov 5, 2006
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Leave the whole thing up to negotiation or you wont even get to 42 before theres a flame let alone ww3.
 
Nov 13, 2005
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USSR cannot stop a gangbang from both directions.

IT'd just be easier for USSR to DOW Japs at Danzig and invade them then and there before Germany has a chance to help.

I can see what your saying Mike in regards to the threat factor but i agree with Geo on the Khalin Ghol event.

You cant force Russie to except BP if the Japs have done the hardwork, and i personally don't agree witht he rule of excepting any surrender events.

Easiest solution is this.

All Players select there own choices at all events, bar Danzig and Vichy Events which should be historical.

Japan gets its advantage from the relationship as they get cheap materials and if Germany alone can't force BP then they don't deserve it.

I can guarteen you that if i play USSR and Japs can Dow whenever (even if it is 1943 as thats twhen the Reds are most vulnerable figuring they proabably allready are dealing with 500-600 Axis Divisions by then). I will be Dowing Japs at Danzig.

I wont let what happened last time reoccur if i play them.

The other thing to remember is this. Germany hoped for a 4month war with USSR. They failed to achieve this when they sent 1 of the Army Group's south to secure the resources and couldn't take Moscow before the winter sent in. They were 40km away from Moscow. After a month or 2 the Soviet Eastern Army arrived at Moscow and stopped the hunns with a little help from General Mud and General Winter. The Soviet Forces in the east pulled back to Moscow either just before or just after Christmas.

So basically by Early 42 the Eastern Army was in europe.
 
Last edited:
Nov 13, 2005
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Allowing players to choose there event is the easiest Solution.

As Geo said there is a time and place for Jap/Sov war and it is khalin gol.

USSR shouldnt be forced to except BP if Japs win the war.

Infact no event other then Vichy and Danzig should be mandatory, players should get to choose from there options at free will when there events fire.

This solves 99% of all problems, and forces USSR to be ready to fight when they would normally be IC whoring. So by allowing Khalin Gol you Force USSR to divert attention to upgrading or building units when they normally wouldnt have to taking away some of there time to get the 450-500ic up and running.

The key argument here being that if USSR is FORCED to except BP if it fires should have a caveat added that if Japan helps to fire the BP then USSR should have the choice to fight on.

No one should have to except a surrender event IMHO fight to the death. But Majority rules and you all seem to see that one differently to me :wacko:
 

unmerged(62373)

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Nov 5, 2006
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Geofactor said:
just my 2 cents.....just use the kahlkin ghol event....is the japs want war thats the time to do it....if not then maybe agree to extend the non aggression pact to a reasonable time....maybe 43 ......


u just worry about turnin up for abyss geomenzies as the ai is trying to provojke war
 

unmerged(49192)

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Oct 6, 2005
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Well play the East is red , mod it will fix up all the russia and japan wars

And it plays very well in miult player .....

Alot more event for all countrys etc ..

Should try it out .

But anyway , boof and me are still down for USA . thanks .
 

mike8472

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Mighty G said:
Allowing players to choose there event is the easiest Solution.

As Geo said there is a time and place for Jap/Sov war and it is khalin gol.

USSR shouldnt be forced to except BP if Japs win the war.

Infact no event other then Vichy and Danzig should be mandatory, players should get to choose from there options at free will when there events fire.

This solves 99% of all problems, and forces USSR to be ready to fight when they would normally be IC whoring. So by allowing Khalin Gol you Force USSR to divert attention to upgrading or building units when they normally wouldnt have to taking away some of there time to get the 450-500ic up and running.

The key argument here being that if USSR is FORCED to except BP if it fires should have a caveat added that if Japan helps to fire the BP then USSR should have the choice to fight on.

No one should have to except a surrender event IMHO fight to the death. But Majority rules and you all seem to see that one differently to me :wacko:

I understand the thing about Japan. If yous want it kept till 1943 I can agree but it does force Japan into the Southern Attack only there by guranteeing the USSRs large eastern borders.

Historicaly Japan and the USSR never traded much, its between players but if you ask me it slants the game in the wrong direction. More restrictions less freedom of choice for Japan.

As for surrender events, I think all players should accept them. Wether your Italy, Japan, UK and so on, if you fail to defend your nation fully you pay the price. Nations were not defeated by there armies being defeated soley, the armies defended key areas that are vital for the nation to exist, the surrender events represent a thresould being reached.

The reason these events exist is to bring a war to a conclussion without the mundane task of having to take every single VP province or destroy every division of that nation. I can never agree to playing in a game where Germany gets the requirements of bitter peace no matter who the german player is and it is refused by the soviet player. I can agree to keeping Japan out until 1943 unless the kolon gol event is use or what ever it does, im not sure what it does? I cannot however particapte in a game where human players are forced to take every VP or destroy every division of an enemy to win.

If the majority decision of the group is to play with humans decide which way they go with surrender events then I will have to leave playing for another time.

I'll let you guys decide what way yous think you should play and accept the majority vote.
 

mike8472

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Gunships said:
Well play the East is red , mod it will fix up all the russia and japan wars

And it plays very well in miult player .....

Alot more event for all countrys etc ..

Should try it out .

But anyway , boof and me are still down for USA . thanks .

Sounds interesting gunny. I'll play it if the bigger game dosnt suit me. Vannial hoi is a bit dull with events now and unbalanced.

I'll look into it when i et back. Maybe a 1vs1 at least.
 

mike8472

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These are rules played by the east is red MP group. What do yous think. Some good rules there.


Suggested rules for MP play:

The following rules are based on creating a balanced game with a historical flavour, and exceptions or exploits not covered by these rules will be decided by the players in game, based on historical precedent, obvious "gaminess" is prohibited.

In game rules changes in blue:


IMPROVEMENTS AND DOCTRINES

0.1: Coastal/land forts level max is 5
0.2: It's forbidden to abandon doctrine

SPECIAL RULES

0.3: no nuclear weapons till 44
0.4: no rockets or flying bombs till 43

TRADES

1.1: The 2nd day of the game the Axis are the first to make trades, later come the Allies
1.2: The first trades already in place before the game starts must be respected until the war within the context of the allowances made in the other rules.
1.3: The trades between GER/SU and USA/JAP must be free and fair till the war or embargo event (for USA)
1.4: The Allies/Comintern is able to cancel some trades when their new factories put their resource growth in the red
1.5: Free trades only between allied countries at war.
1.6 : The Allies may not trade for rares with AI countries that they are not allied to with the exception of deals suggested by the AI itself.
1.7 : Trading and selling units is forbidden, except between allied nations, and then only non-capital class ships higher than class I (No CV's, CVL, BB's or CA's), and if payment is received at 100% negotiation.
1.8 : No trading, selling or donating VP provinces, unless that province is a core province of the receiving nation.

SPIES

2.1 : Coups or funding partisans are not allowed against any nation, all other options are allowed.

UNITS IN THE FRONT

3.1 : Urban Limit for stacking units is 36
3.2 : Amphibious landing is unlimited
3.3 : No SR with units adjacent to enemy units, or when you're bombed from the air
3.4 : Recycling units (disbanding) is allowed only if they aren't already encircled
3.5 : You must supply ALL your OWN divisions, air and fleet in your OWNED provinces
3.6 : Expeditionary Force can be given to an ally only when supplying these units is impossible (example Africa Corps in Italian Libya). (Spartan Rule 7.4)
3.7 : Expeditionary forces from minor allies must be returned to those allies if ally is under Military control

DIPLOMACY

4.1 : No war until Danzig except those wars prompted by events
4.2 : Phony wars are not allowed - when you are able to take the last victory points or annex, do so quickly
4.3 : You must respect peace treaties and non aggression pacts, unless changed by event or otherwise through the AI.
4.4 : When you join one Alliance you must stay in it until the end
4.5 : Human players playing minor countries may not join their parent alliance unless they are at +200 relations with the alliance leader, without exception.
4.6 : No country may GOI any other country.
4.7 : No new alliances with minors until the fall of Czech except by event.

INFLUENCING

5.1 : Influencing of opponent player countries is forbidden.
5.2 : Influencing historical minor Allies of the opposing alliance is forbidden, (For Example, UK may not influence Hungary but could influence Nationalist Spain)

GERMANY RULES

6.1 : Axis alliances allowed: Austria, Hungary, Romania, Bulgaria, Italy, Argentina, Nationalist Spain, Finland (after the end of Winter War event), and Japan (if Japan may, see Japan 7.9)
6.2 : No Axis minors when played by Humans (Hungary -- Romania -- Bulgaria) may join Axis until after the fall of Czechoslovakia in March 1939. Human Nationalist Spain and Argentina may join Axis after Danzig. Note: All these Alliances are governed by rule 4.5.
6.3 : Axis powers may not give military Access to Japan until it is in the Axis.

ITALY RULES

7.1 : Italy can join axis at any time after Albania event as governed by 4.5 for minors.
7.2 : Italy must NOT accept the surrender event when its homeland is invaded (event bugged)

JAPAN RULES

8.1 : Japan independent alliances: Japan cannot ally any Chinese warlord country (Tibet included) but alliance with Siam is allowed by event
8.2 : Japan MUST accept the surrender event when its homeland is invaded
8.3 : Japan may not join Axis until it is at war with USSR.
8.4 : Japan may not accept any peace offer from China prior to the Fall of the Dragon event, other than those occurring through scripted events.
8.5 : Japan may not DOW UK until after the Vichy event fires or USA 3 months after Vichy and human player is controlling USA.

UK/FRANCE RULES

9.1 : Allied alliances allowed: Any except for historical Axis minors
9.2 : France may not have more than three regular army units in the Free French zone of Africa at Vichy.
9.3 : UK may not ally Republican Spain until after Vichy

USA RULES

10.1 : USA cannot be played by a human until the Vichy event.
10.2 : USA may only join the Allies if it could naturally declare war on both Germany and Italy (assuming Italy is in Axis), or in the case where Japan is at war with UK, USA can not Join allies until it could naturally declare war on all three (assuming Italy is in Axis and even if Japan is not).
10.3 : USA may DOW Japan independently of the Allies if it has sliders to do so. (Hence, USA could be at war with Japan but not Germany).

USSR RULES

11.1 : Comintern alliances allowed: Republican Spain, Brazil or any countries having Marxist/Stalinist or LWR ideology, after Danzig.
11.2 : SU must honour the MR Pact
11.3 : SU may not give military access to the Allies for the purpose of defending the SU motherland.
11.4 : USSR may ally any minor after Danzig.
11.5 : Soviet player must accept the historical peace agreement with Finland in the Winter War.
11.6 : UK may not ally Republican Spain