New Aussie Game 2008

[mike8472]

Now as for USA war entry for Sealion the rules also state this.

d) However Japan may DOW UK & USA anytime from start of 1941 & USA may enter immediately should Japan DOW on the UK. Saying this any events which fire due to a successful Sealion may be honoured.The only CW puppets allowed in the Med prior to war with Italy are Oman, Yemen and Iraq.

The US can only enter via events for a succesful sealion.

If you dont have this rule and make it so USA can enter straight away the UK will defend itself correctly at home and no one will even attempt the invasion. Hence why we have the rule, that is based on other MP group rules. When and if the event fires then USA can join war and all is good, if it dosnt fire well thats how events work.

Just on that Iraq event, it works as its designed to. Once the Axis take El-Aleim the coup event can fire. Iraq dosnt join the Axis just leaves the allies, Iraq is no good to the Axis unless we take the suez so im puzzeled as to why you would be so concerned about it when we cant even get to it.

As for our rules, well we either all need to read the rules carefully or we all are not following them very well.

All 3 of yous, Gunny, Major and G all said we had no rule for US entry. I said yes we did and you cannot enter until event fires. As we can see here I was right about that one for a change. Had the USA entered the war it would have been against the rules, as the military access is as well until USA is at war with Germany.

As for the military access I dont think it was breaking the rules at all, as I did not attack anyone from Italian land, ports or airbases. I merly passed through and went to a yougoslavian port, in fact my fleet was in the med for a long time. Thats the way I understood the rules, when yous objected I canceled it as I didnt really need it any case as I had the yougoslavian port. Wether I had access or not made no difference to the game, only that it gave the UK advanced warning. Had the UK not know its is likely they would lose the middle east but there main forces would be in UK, how ironic that the discovery of my plan lead to the success of an even bigger prize. Had we tacken the middle east we would never have tried to invade the UK as there defences would likely be to strong. funny how the game works out.

 

[unmerged(62373)]

No rule was broken. The way I understand the rules for number 18. Is you are not allowd to attack from a nation you have military access from unless you are both at war, but you can pass through them. Thats all I did pass through.

Also USA is not allowd to base units in UK as happened last night until US and Germany are at war, as the rules states. Yet dozens of US fighters and ships were clearly based in UK land when US is not in the war.

See how complicated our rules have become, no knows what the hell is going on or people think rules mean different things.

Doesnt take a lawyer, which i happen to be, to work out that 18A is quite explicit, you cannot go through a country who isnot at war with your enemy, fullstop. C should just be dumped as redundant, A precludes it.

 

[Majorball]

A number of events havnt fired including USA entry for Sea Lion. Wouldnt surprise me if it fires directly on next reload like it should have 2 weeks ago.

 

[Majorball]

If you dont have this rule and make it so USA can enter straight away the UK will defend itself correctly at home and no one will even attempt the invasion. Hence why we have the rule, that is based on other MP group rules. When and if the event fires then USA can join war and all is good, if it dosnt fire well thats how events work.

Dont worry lesson learnt but things happened which made this possible.

Just on that Iraq event, it works as its designed to. Once the Axis take El-Aleim the coup event can fire. Iraq dosnt join the Axis just leaves the allies, Iraq is no good to the Axis unless we take the suez so im puzzeled as to why you would be so concerned about it when we cant even get to it.

Why I concerned is I was told to put 5 divisions in Bagdad because that will cause a fight when the event fires. Those 5 divisions including armour were all UK divisions and would have helped in another area. Wether updating to the 1.2 patch has affected how this plays out I do not know.

All 3 of yous, Gunny, Major and G all said we had no rule for US entry. I said yes we did and you cannot enter until event fires. As we can see here I was right about that one for a change. Had the USA entered the war it would have been against the rules, as the military access is as well until USA is at war with Germany.

You know and I know that an event is meant fire for USA which hasnt. Find out the criteria for this event and why it hasnt fired. You know it is meant to fire so stop trying to gain any more advantage without USA entry into the war. You all told me it will fire.

As for the military access I dont think it was breaking the rules at all, as I did not attack anyone from Italian land, ports or airbases. I merly passed through and went to a yougoslavian port, in fact my fleet was in the med for a long time. Thats the way I understood the rules, when yous objected I canceled it as I didnt really need it any case as I had the yougoslavian port. Wether I had access or not made no difference to the game, only that it gave the UK advanced warning. Had the UK not know its is likely they would lose the middle east but there main forces would be in UK, how ironic that the discovery of my plan lead to the success of an even bigger prize. Had we tacken the middle east we would never have tried to invade the UK as there defences would likely be to strong. funny how the game works out.

Either way you need a port to rebase them otherwise you didnt have the range to make the Med or I would have seen them sitting at sea somewhere. As always you found someway to stretch the rules and spirit of the game to suit yourself. German ships in the Med prewar hey..Not like I would have seen them pass through Gilbralter in real life hey!! What a load of bull.
It was dodgy and you know it was. Thats about the 4th different excuse you have made for that.

 

[Majorball]

If the rules was broken as it was , we 1 play again before the time , or UK gets the win .

Dont worry Gunny I will play it out as is. I will fix things next game. Mike plays Germany I play UK. Cant let the weak prick learn from all my mistakes

I agree with Mike about DOW dates. Only one I think we should follow is Danzig. All others open even USA entry. If USA gets its intervention slider down it can join anytime too. Works both ways. Pretty sure they would be in the war in our game the way events have turned out.

 

[mike8472]

Doesnt take a lawyer, which i happen to be, to work out that 18A is quite explicit, you cannot go through a country who isnot at war with your enemy, fullstop. C should just be dumped as redundant, A precludes it.

It may be explicit for you, a lawyer an expert in these kinds of things. But i need laymans terms as im a simple meathead, and I know munster is half again as bad as me. The others well I dont even think they can read or write.

 

[unmerged(62373)]

It may be explicit for you, a lawyer an expert in these kinds of things. But i need laymans terms as im a simple meathead, and I know munster is half again as bad as me. The others well I dont even think they can read or write.

I dont believe that for a second. Its a poor argument when your excuse is feigned ignorance.

The rules need tidying but they are pretty clear.

Did Scotland fall too?

 

[Majorball]

I dont believe that for a second. Its a poor argument when your excuse is feigned ignorance.

The rules need tidying but they are pretty clear.

Did Scotland fall too?

The whole lot fell like a deck of cards..only about 20 divisions in the defending the whole of the UK. The ones I managed to SR out that were not adjecent to enemy units turned up in the new capital Karachi. Actually has a lot of advantages with home capital in Karachi. Deploy new units right to Asia.

 

[mike8472]

Why I concerned is I was told to put 5 divisions in Bagdad because that will cause a fight when the event fires. Those 5 divisions including armour were all UK divisions and would have helped in another area. Wether updating to the 1.2 patch has affected how this plays out I do not know.

Ok well ive never seen that befor, so I wouldnt know if it causes a fight or not. I guess your allies lead you up the garden path.

You know and I know that an event is meant fire for USA which hasnt. Find out the criteria for this event and why it hasnt fired. You know it is meant to fire so stop trying to gain any more advantage without USA entry into the war. You all told me it will fire.

Well im at work till 8.30pm so I got no time to look it up, maybe I will post on forums see if i get an answer. All im saying is events fire when events want to, some times the fire straigt away sometimes not for months. You can beat becuase you want it straight away it wont fire for ages. Also if USA joins the War, Japan will also join on Jan 1st 1941. Will you be prepared for that as well considering India is your only bastion of IC and resources.


Either way you need a port to rebase them otherwise you didnt have the range to make the Med or I would have seen them sitting at sea somewhere. As always you found someway to stretch the rules and spirit of the game to suit yourself. German ships in the Med prewar hey..Not like I would have seen them pass through Gilbralter in real life hey!! What a load of bull.
It was dodgy and you know it was. Thats about the 4th different excuse you have made for that.

Well the ships did pass through gibralter, rebased at an italian port and waiting of youogoslavia. Had I done it the other way and deployed them into Yogoslavia which I still could have done as with all my news ships. Those ships was the fleet that destroyed your 20 divisions of gibralter. either way the result was the same. There was no way for you to avoid the outcome other then to stay on the other side of the suez and not bother to defend gibralter. All those forces could have been in the UK or in other key locations. No matter which way we did it this game we were going for the med first, simply to catch you off gaurd, attack you were your weakest, to force you to redploy your forces and thin them out. Thats what we wanted and thats what you did. We failed however to get into the middle east of date, the only blight on our plan.

 

[mike8472]

I dont believe that for a second. Its a poor argument when your excuse is feigned ignorance.

The rules need tidying but they are pretty clear.

Did Scotland fall too?

Maybe to you they read clear, but they way I read them I get a different opinion.

The same as the UK gave military access to the US, which is against our rules. The same as they wanted the US to DOW us which was against the rules. No one is really sure what the rules are as im sure none of us have read them in depth for some time.

So get off my back when everyone dosnt know what the damm rules are or how there ment to be implemented as clearly seen last night.

 

[mike8472]

The whole lot fell like a deck of cards..only about 20 divisions in the defending the whole of the UK. The ones I managed to SR out that were not adjecent to enemy units turned up in the new capital Karachi. Actually has a lot of advantages with home capital in Karachi. Deploy new units right to Asia.

Hahaha. Thats good units SR around the planet to safty. Damm I should have gone slower and let them reappear in the UK to kill them. Theres another realistic part of the game for ya major. Can we make a rule for that....sigh... :wacko:

 

[unmerged(62373)]

So get off my back when everyone dosnt know what the damm rules are or how there ment to be implemented as clearly seen last night.

Of all the backs in this world to get on, I dont think Ill'd pick yours.

Im happy to re-draft the rules. In 2 years im yet to see a ganme that hasnt been quit over rule dispute/gamey exploit shit.

 

[Majorball]

Germany shouldnt have access to the Med in September 1939.

You have really twisted the rules to suit your purpose here. Its not meant to be. Was not physical possible to move them to the Med without being observed. Only way I ever agree to something like this is when ships do move through gibralter pre war you must declare that to the player that controls Gilbralter. Surely the observation posts at Gibralter would not miss a fleet that size passing thru!! If you had of not been discovered the game would have ended right away if you tried any of that dodgy rubbish like invading eygpt with Germans in 1939.

Ship production is way different to SR ground and air units around the map. Deploying a whole Navy into a just captured port by parachute is something out of fantasy land. Regardless of how they got there or what the game allows they should not have been there. Why have rules against UK deploying minor Allies to the Med prior to war with Italy to give poor Italy a chance and then Germany stuffs this up by somehow moving 40 naval units to the Med completely unabalancing the whole area then hiding behind rules that the UK cant move any minor Allies in despite this threat. If you cannot see the logic in that you are way too biased in your opinions. On one hand you twist the rules to suit your own needs and then hide behind rules when I try to react to a situation which no one has thought of before, this is not fair.

 

[mike8472]

Germany shouldnt have access to the Med in September 1939.

You have really twisted the rules to suit your purpose here. Its not meant to be. Was not physical possible to move them to the Med without being observed. Only way I ever agree to something like this is when ships do move through gibralter pre war you must declare that to the player that controls Gilbralter. Surely the observation posts at Gibralter would not miss a fleet that size passing thru!! If you had of not been discovered the game would have ended right away if you tried any of that dodgy rubbish like invading eygpt with Germans in 1939.

Major Major Major. If you want a real life situation go join the army or read a history book. This is a game. Maybe things in this game like rebasing 10,000 of thousands of planes around the world in a matter of house to an airbase the size of 1. Is that not gamey as well. How about our 13 divisions invading from out TPs normaly an invasion that siez would require many hundreds if not thousands of ships. Stop trying to say oh my men would have spotted it in real life. Hey im sure you men on the beaches along the channel would have seen my 1 destroyer off your coast for months, or entire fleets have passed through the channel in many games. You need to stop comparing this to real life. Other wise you will never stop complaining about this and that. Sure we can adjust rules, but its the rules that got us to this point, adjustment to the rules will only result in more unexpected options.

Ship production is way different to SR ground and air units around the map. Deploying a whole Navy into a just captured port by parachute is something out of fantasy land. Regardless of how they got there or what the game allows they should not have been there. Why have rules against UK deploying minor Allies to the Med prior to war with Italy to give poor Italy a chance and then Germany stuffs this up by somehow moving 40 naval units to the Med completely unabalancing the whole area then hiding behind rules that the UK cant move any minor Allies in despite this threat. If you cannot see the logic in that you are way too biased in your opinions. On one hand you twist the rules to suit your own needs and then hide behind rules when I try to react to a situation which no one has thought of before, this is not fair.

Like I said above the game allows it, there are no rules against it. There has never been any rules against deploying ships to newly captured ports. It may not be realistic but this is a game with many hundreds if not thousands of different aspects to the game that dont make sense in real life. You eed to get over it and play the game with in the game mechanics. We stick to our general rules which probably need an overhaul which I tried to do befor we started this but no one was really interested.

Even your allies have complained to me about how much complaining you have been doing to them. "One comment I heard was it was finaly quiet when we invaded the UK for the first time all game" Are you starting to get the picture. You are the only person that cant accept that it is a game with many flaws and no matter how much you try to creat rules to have that perfect game it will never happen.

Yes I am biased to the nation I play naturaly, as your are biased towards yours. But please for the love of god simply play the GAME as a GAME dont compare it to real life and try to make it such as thats why you keep getting disapointed. Play with in the mechanics of the game and what ever rules we have.

All the rules you have ever introduced is designed to push germany completely down the historical path and limt its options to only those that were historical. But you see no one wants to play germany and make all the same mistakes germany made in WWII. We are all here to play to correct them and do the things Germany should have done.

You try to champion fair play, but I dont see how Italy can ever fight against 20 odd armour deployed to the middle east then backed up with all the minors and UK army, plus the Royal navy and airforce. If you will deploy all those forces, im naturaly going to help Italy. There was a time when I wouldnt help Italy, but the continued massive allied buildip there forced us to change it, now we always go all out becuase if we dont the allies will. Its just the way it is, no game will be fair when both sides are trying to kill each other.

At the end of the day you play with in the game mechanics and what it allows, and not what happens in real life. If you cant accept that then Im not sure we can stand the moaning.

 

[unmerged(50486)]

USA should have entered the War upon the German landing at Plymouth.

There is no Event that will fire i repeated this several times.

USA has every right to join the war upon a successful landing, our rules are Guidelines and not Rules.

I would like to see USA dow immediately over this. Gunny should never have listened to mike. There is no damn event, every one knows this.

 

[mike8472]

USA should have entered the War upon the German landing at Plymouth.

There is no Event that will fire i repeated this several times.

USA has every right to join the war upon a successful landing, our rules are Guidelines and not Rules.

I would like to see USA dow immediately over this. Gunny should never have listened to mike. There is no damn event, every one knows this.

Yes I cant find an event either, and no help on forums either. Although our rules are no longer rules but guide lines.

I however have found some good events for just this situation. Its called the Irish crisis. It was designed to bring the US into the war after a succesful sea lion.

Look at this link and have look for yourself. It would seem to solve our present situation. http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?t=349001

I totaly disagree with the Automatic DOW of USA for Sea Lion no matter which nation I play. Even if im the US, it is up to the UK player to look after there own backyard. The USA was never going to enter WWII even after the expected conquest of britian by German in 1940, thats an historical fact backed up by US documents from FDR to churchill.

For the game purposes if you have instant DOW for the US upon German as soon as German forces land there we will never have any Sea Lions and an important part of our game will never get played, the Battle of Britain. This also provides the UK the option to simply defend the UK likely as the US will save its bacon so its free to mass its entire force into the Middle east or Africa without regard to its own defence.

This is what we need to look at. Most other MP groups only allow US war entry after a succesful sea lion, not simply a landing which may be defeated. I dont care if US joins in our present game but we need a balanced approach for future games so that If I play UK next game, we know what were doing and what will happen.

I guess its all a bit muddy now as no one as ever really invaded the UK in our Aussie games and conquered it like now. So its a new area for us as group.

In tonights game though Japan is already moving into Position should USA join the war now Japan will join on Jan 1st 1941 which is only 4 months away.

Will US entry now do anything to reverse the situation, no. What will US entry do now, UK will lose India thats for sure and be out of the game totaly. Perhaps even annexed.

If we leave it to when US joins the war normaly with Japan. Then the US will have time to build an army to help defend india and more forces to cover all the areas the UK can now not. It will give UK time to reposition its forces to defend india and remain a major contributor to the game.

For the games pourposes I will offer these concessions. I will allow the UK to repositions what ever forces its needs to india with out hinderance. I will allow the US to move some forces to UK held areas in india and atlantic islands, eg azores, iceland and so on. This will give the UK and US time to prepare to defend the last IC bases in India against the massive Japanes/Chinese assult that is sure to come upon war. It will allow UK forces to consolidate remaining forces without further loss.

I think this would be best for the game, and gives major some breathing room after being under pump and precious time to prepare for Japans entry to the war.

What do you think, besides %$@ you.

 

[Majorball]

For the games pourposes I will offer these concessions. I will allow the UK to repositions what ever forces its needs to india with out hinderance. I will allow the US to move some forces to UK held areas in india and atlantic islands, eg azores, iceland and so on. This will give the UK and US time to prepare to defend the last IC bases in India against the massive Japanes/Chinese assult that is sure to come upon war. It will allow UK forces to consolidate remaining forces without further loss.

I think this would be best for the game, and gives major some breathing room after being under pump and precious time to prepare for Japans entry to the war.

What do you think, besides %$@ you.

I dont need any charity...All those areas are well defended, probably too well defended but I always guess wrong what you are going to do anyway and India will not fall unless you send 100 divisions via Persia. I dont want you making any excuses when we hand your ass to you on a plate.

Add I have never had 20 armour...most I ever had in the Mid East was 12. Probabaly look like more with all the retreating they had to do. You wont get me in any future games I can assure you of that. This game has been one disaster after another.

And while I am at it all the house rules we introduce are usually to combat some dodgy move by you anyway.

And another thing, it is a privledged right of the UK player to moan as much as they like!!

 

[mike8472]

I dont need any charity...All those areas are well defended, probably too well defended but I always guess wrong what you are going to do anyway and India will not fall unless you send 100 divisions via Persia. I dont want you making any excuses when we hand your ass to you on a plate.

Add I have never had 20 armour...most I ever had in the Mid East was 12. Probabaly look like more with all the retreating they had to do. You wont get me in any future games I can assure you of that. This game has been one disaster after another.

And while I am at it all the house rules we introduce are usually to combat some dodgy move by you anyway.

And another thing, it is a privledged right of the UK player to moan as much as they like!!

Hey its not charity, im starting to feel sorry for ya. Thought you might like a reprieve for awhile. Hitler sheeds a tear for a churchill....opps na was only a bit of dust. Hahaha.

We It looked you had at least 15-16 divisions of armour, but I might be wrong. I dont pause and count every damm unit like you do.

Well house rules will always try to counter moves by the agressor, rearly is it to counter a defender. The defender just sits there. Plus next game im sure G or Gunny will be Germany not me. I will try my hand at UK, USA or mabe Japan. havnt been the Japs in awhile.

Well I hope you got a big army in India you will need it. With our forces perhaps comming at you from the west and hundreds of Chinese and Japanese hordes that will come from the east I expect you will need mamoth mobilisation effort and huge support from the US just to survie 1941.

Well thats one thing you do very well as the UK, moan. At least you won that battle.

 

[Majorball]

Your not getting out of being Germany next game.

 

[mike8472]

Your not getting out of being Germany next game.

Well up to G and gunny they both want to play Germany I know it. But hey if your keen for some more punishment im happy to help ya out. You can bet I will think of some new down right sneak plan to catch you of guard once again.

In other news G and me will edit in Iceland and Greenland to the US. That will fix that event and make it easier for the allies to keep it supplied.