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Bickering
Mike like I said its time to be a bit flexible. It really disappoints me to find that despite your break you have returned to this with a Hypo conflict bickering style. I will let you in on 2 secrets.
i respect your ability
I am not trying to pull some sort of conspiracy over your head.
its often said of police and prison people they develop systemic unhealthy views of the motivations of their compatriot man. U have to understand i have no agenda here other than trying to establish a workable enjoyable game for all. Look i am more than happy to play a roumanian me versus a brazilian nasr if you and him like that. This of course blows your bias argument out of the water. Please 2 deep breathes, a bex, and a short kip and you will see the way forward.
further facts romainian IC is + 10% mandatory
Brazil is -10% mandatory due to fixed leaders. This means in practice that even from day 1 brazil IC is lower.
romainan ic growth is from ic structure 80% brazil is from ic structure 60% so mid 36 roumanian IC is more than Brazil. By 1940 the gap is potentially very big.
roumania has opportunity to capture lands and add mp in early years of war brazil does not. Honestly mike with so few rules left to tweak any difference you have lost all clothes on this issue especially as we have so few other options.
sweden? turkey? see my stats? mexico? Norway?
really am happy to bend over to give you maximum possible chance of winning just tell me my max ic at start eg 7 mp 20 or whatever and i will choose the nation to maximise your chances. hey dominican republic looks good.
Mike like I said its time to be a bit flexible. It really disappoints me to find that despite your break you have returned to this with a Hypo conflict bickering style. I will let you in on 2 secrets.
i respect your ability
I am not trying to pull some sort of conspiracy over your head.
its often said of police and prison people they develop systemic unhealthy views of the motivations of their compatriot man. U have to understand i have no agenda here other than trying to establish a workable enjoyable game for all. Look i am more than happy to play a roumanian me versus a brazilian nasr if you and him like that. This of course blows your bias argument out of the water. Please 2 deep breathes, a bex, and a short kip and you will see the way forward.
further facts romainian IC is + 10% mandatory
Brazil is -10% mandatory due to fixed leaders. This means in practice that even from day 1 brazil IC is lower.
romainan ic growth is from ic structure 80% brazil is from ic structure 60% so mid 36 roumanian IC is more than Brazil. By 1940 the gap is potentially very big.
roumania has opportunity to capture lands and add mp in early years of war brazil does not. Honestly mike with so few rules left to tweak any difference you have lost all clothes on this issue especially as we have so few other options.
sweden? turkey? see my stats? mexico? Norway?
really am happy to bend over to give you maximum possible chance of winning just tell me my max ic at start eg 7 mp 20 or whatever and i will choose the nation to maximise your chances. hey dominican republic looks good.
start forces brazil 3 inf 1 cav 2 militia total 6
start forces roumania 21 inf 6 cav 1 larmour 3 mtn total 31
puts a point 1 mp advantage in perspective
Did some maths on this and simply calculated the MP advantage at start of roumania over brazil is 197.5 manpower plus the standard 25. This gives at the agreed difference puting aside the huge roumainain IC advantage a lead of 220 plus at start between our 2 teams.
Now with a fixed differential of .33-.18= .15 then we can speculate how long it will take before the brazil mp juggernaught can catch the roumanian one lol
This shows that it should be 50 months. (This figure is exclusive of external data.)
start forces roumania 21 inf 6 cav 1 larmour 3 mtn total 31
puts a point 1 mp advantage in perspective
Did some maths on this and simply calculated the MP advantage at start of roumania over brazil is 197.5 manpower plus the standard 25. This gives at the agreed difference puting aside the huge roumainain IC advantage a lead of 220 plus at start between our 2 teams.
Now with a fixed differential of .33-.18= .15 then we can speculate how long it will take before the brazil mp juggernaught can catch the roumanian one lol
This shows that it should be 50 months. (This figure is exclusive of external data.)
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Like my 140+ base IC Italy I acheived in MP Mike without conquests, the best I have done is a 100 effective IC Romania with approx 700 MP just prior to Danzig to build units with. Had I had a human Italy/Germany to feed me res I could have got 4 tech teams and possibally 110 IC. But mind you, Romania wouldn't have had a major force in the feild until approx the historical DOW date on Russia, June/July 41. I'll do a SP test on Brazil up until the same time and see what I can acheive, I'll post back with my findings. SE.
Bottom line is Brazil maybe able to build lots of units but they are poor quality and more so without allied blueprints until later in the game. I only ever use their troops defensively cause the org dissapears real quick in battle. I reckon human controlled canada is more dangerous to Axis.
OK. This is the results from my test. By Danzig I had the following:
53 Base IC, 64 effective.
0.40 MP growth a day.
650 MP in reserve.
In october 37 there are elections, as long as you go with anything other then keep current government, you will lose your head of state that gives you -10% IC. I also had pretty much full free market and full hawk lobby, 1 move of each left to do IIRC. But with influencing from UK/USA, you would easily have full free hawk and FM. Also I was spending upto 6+ IC in buying resources from the world market to feed my economy, had I had res injection from my future allies. I would have been easily able to get enough base IC to a 4th tech team. On the down side, they do lack land tech teams as Major has said. I was though 1 and a qaurter techs off having basic motorised infantry. Land docs were lacking. But all in all, if Brazil stays out until USA joins the war (mid41/42), they would be quite a power house. SE.
53 Base IC, 64 effective.
0.40 MP growth a day.
650 MP in reserve.
In october 37 there are elections, as long as you go with anything other then keep current government, you will lose your head of state that gives you -10% IC. I also had pretty much full free market and full hawk lobby, 1 move of each left to do IIRC. But with influencing from UK/USA, you would easily have full free hawk and FM. Also I was spending upto 6+ IC in buying resources from the world market to feed my economy, had I had res injection from my future allies. I would have been easily able to get enough base IC to a 4th tech team. On the down side, they do lack land tech teams as Major has said. I was though 1 and a qaurter techs off having basic motorised infantry. Land docs were lacking. But all in all, if Brazil stays out until USA joins the war (mid41/42), they would be quite a power house. SE.
I skipped past most of this,
Im happy for tonic to be Brazil, i dont think Nasr would object to Naty Spain.
Naty Spain wont join me till after vichy.
You guys can measure dicks with IC and start mp/units and what not all you like. But the simple factor is that Brazil isnt a historical ally. Romania is, so if you want a non historical on allies then i too get one.
So im happy if tonic is happy, ive no qualms letting my nasr puppet smash his brazilian jungle puss.
Im happy for tonic to be Brazil, i dont think Nasr would object to Naty Spain.
Naty Spain wont join me till after vichy.
You guys can measure dicks with IC and start mp/units and what not all you like. But the simple factor is that Brazil isnt a historical ally. Romania is, so if you want a non historical on allies then i too get one.
So im happy if tonic is happy, ive no qualms letting my nasr puppet smash his brazilian jungle puss.
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actually brazil was an historical member of the allies. If I was axis I would certainly be happy with the trade off brazil/spain as spain is much stronger thanbrazil as i have shown in the figures.
all i am after is a nation i can play. Turkey is an option but that would give the axis an even greater advantage than spain/brazil
SE's testing confirms what i am saying that by danzig the roumanians will have 40-50% more IC than brazil and almost the same MP reserves but lower MP growth. Not a bad trade off. people seem to forget that spain has better MP than brazil and much better techs.
all i am after is a nation i can play. Turkey is an option but that would give the axis an even greater advantage than spain/brazil
SE's testing confirms what i am saying that by danzig the roumanians will have 40-50% more IC than brazil and almost the same MP reserves but lower MP growth. Not a bad trade off. people seem to forget that spain has better MP than brazil and much better techs.
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astonished said:
Giving Allies brazil is effectively giving allies an extra free 100divs they wouldnt normally have. Seeing as axis allready have all the aformentioned? minors how do axis counter for this, simply withs pain (they are fairly similar in size).
Spain with CP builds a tank every 140 days, to brazil with FM building a tank every 80- days. If you want brazil its yours, Nasr has agreed to play as spain.
Lets also not forget the oil and rares that brazil wont sell to germany, hey tonic ^^ Hitler orders the Fallschirmjaeger to prepare for vigirous jungle ops. to secure said resources.. ^^
Mighty G said:I skipped past most of this,
Im happy for tonic to be Brazil, i dont think Nasr would object to Naty Spain.
Naty Spain wont join me till after vichy.
You guys can measure dicks with IC and start mp/units and what not all you like. But the simple factor is that Brazil isnt a historical ally. Romania is, so if you want a non historical on allies then i too get one.
So im happy if tonic is happy, ive no qualms letting my nasr puppet smash his brazilian jungle puss.
u have a non history ally its china!!
brazil joined the allies by declaring war on germany and italy on the 22nd of August 1942. Brazil based US forces on its soil for a considerable period prior to this. Brazil sent a 25,000 man exped. force to italy in 43 for the invasion.
There you go MG you learn something new every day. Spain never joined the Axis. China never joined the Axis.
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astonished said:
Acctually Brazil has higher MP growth then Romania, almost double IIRC. Also given the fact that if you do as said, remain out of the war until U.S. entry, it is very possible for Brazil to have 100+ effective IC and 4 tech teams. Then with full Free Market and full Hawk Lobby, Brazil like MG mentioned will be building tanks every 80 days, every 40 days at full gearings. While Romania will be building them every 140 days, at best, every 100 days at full gearings. Once Romania has 70 odd divisions in the feild, all future MP growth would be contributed to replacing MP loss in battle on the Russian front and let's not forget it will take them ages to upgrade as newer techs become available. Given that Brazil has double the MP growth of Romania, they can not only replace their losses, but they can continue to build newer units and with full Free Market, they can upgrade 3 times quicker for 2 times cheaper.
I also did a test with Naty Spain this afternoon. They are by far the only potential axis minor that can compete in regards to Brazil. To say Brazil was a historical ally, well. If they only contributed 25'000 men for the invasion of Italy, well they were extremely minor. Given the fact that human Brazil in this game can easily contribute 100+ divisions which would be the equivalent to what, 500'000 - 1'000'000 men. That is also rather unhistorical. So if the Axis are happy with a human Brazil, then I am by all means happy with an unhistorical human Naty Spain. SE.
astonished said:
What your failing to see Tonic is Axis loose most of the time, and giving allies another 100 divs (million men) that they dont normally have is fairly unbalancing. Now when i say historical , maybe i mean ahistorical. As in refernce to the nations ''normally played''.
And i know Brazil was in ww2, and i certainly dont down note their sacrifice but..They didnt do much tillt he Italian caimpaign.
""On 29th June 1944 the first five thousand FEB/BEF soldiers left Brazil for Europe aboard the USNS General Mann. The first units arrived in Italy on 16th July 1944.''
Anyways, seems like every ones decided Brazil is no problem for you to play
Due to the Brazilian dictatorship's unwillingness to get more deeply involved in the Allied war effort, by 1942 a popular saying was that "it's more likely for snakes to start to smoke now than for the BEF to set out."
Hahahahahahaha Gold !!!!!
Hahahahahahaha Gold !!!!!
you justdont get it do you major had 60 odd brazilian divisions last time mike was Italy mike had 50+ level 2 mech . The brazillians were totally outclassed but as USA SE u will sufferthe consequences more than most so bring it on i say u axis sooks.Axis Comrade said:
Mighty G said:
after the italian campaign in brazil it now means an inevitable action is coming your way and it is not good for you. You should have read to the end of the article dufus.
MG I have seen you play japs and USA at close hand you should be more worried about taking france. bring it on i say and lets see how good your germany is.
SE as the USA player has argued for an axis spain so i cant argue with that.
Spain will be stronger than the UK is my predicition but that will then be SE's problem.
we just need to agree now when the 2 nations can enter war. start dates should be similar for bothh as per majors original logic.
bring it on
ps i have never seen the axis lose yet every time we are about to win as allies the game is cancelled
Mighty G said:
this is a transparentcrap argument and the author knows it for a start the double ic will enable 2 serials versus one and secondly the brazilian tanks will be low org ft17 and the spanish tanks will be pz3/4. major can confirm this
as far as the extra divisions is concerned it takes brazil until 43 to build them. the allied player always gets them about then. u will get your spanish payoff in 40 is my guess.
double chance for sea lion under this but i think a good game none the less. I am certainly worried about nasr and mike as they have taught me a fair bit. as for you mg i think the boot is on the other foot
Axis Comrade said:
that is a joke to achieve that you must have built nothin but ic as indicated by the mp reserve leaving the entire nation open to spanish capture is a bad bad bad stupid comparison
astonished said:
This just shows what a noob you are. IF you cant have 41 tech'd equipment by 41 ther is something wrong with the way you do your buildup. Your a democarcy with Free market for christ sake. If you cant have your shit ready in 41 and it takes you till 43 i seriously suggest you check your priorities.
If i have taught you nothing from that last game tonic then im very happy, cause you obviously dont realise the neccesity for Allies to put a boot on Germanies throat and keep it there.
Victory has a price and to be honest im not convinced you have the cajones to sacrifice troops to achieve the final victory.
Your failure will be that you dont want your allies ordering your troops, and therefore you cant do syncmoves like the game when you were canada. You didnt understand that then so i doubt youll understand that now. Eitherway im fairly confident in saying brazil will play a very minor roll in this war as i dont think UK and USA can rely on your boys enough to be on the front.
Spain will join me after vichy 1940 sometime.
You can join UK at the same time if you like,t hat is of course if gunny will except you
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