New achievements in T&T

[zesman]

Hi,

As the title says, will there be new achievements for Tours and Tournament?

thanks

 

[boorkie]

It is, they have removed the Ironman only rule for achievements in CK3, I have seen it at some Videos.

can you tell us where does did this information come from?
I'm skeptical as there was no information about it in the DD and I wouldn't be surprised the prerelease build came with achievements disabled

 

[PDXOxycoon]

Can anyone confirm 100% with a source that that is what the spicy thing is?

I will confirm that. It was decided to not mention it in the DD, so it wouldn't overshadow the discussion on the fantastic work the art department has put in, so if you're going to discuss it: keep it in this thread The spicy thing is you can get achievements without ironman, and you can get them while running mods. There are some conditions that will disable it, but you can look at those in the patch notes when they come.

While it means you can make mods that instantly unlocks the achievements, the Crow of Judgement will be gazing upon cheaters. Somewhere, somehow, there will be a Crow of Judgement looking at you.

 

[boorkie]

I will confirm that. It was decided to not mention it in the DD, so it wouldn't overshadow the discussion on the fantastic work the art department has put in, so if you're going to discuss it: keep it in this thread The spicy thing is you can get achievements without ironman, and you can get them while running mods. There are some conditions that will disable it, but you can look at those in the patch notes when they come.

While it means you can make mods that instantly unlocks the achievements, the Crow of Judgement will be gazing upon cheaters. Somewhere, somehow, there will be a Crow of Judgement looking at you.

This just in, achievements no longer matter
Sad day imho

Don't get me wrong, I would have been ok with cosmetic mods not disabling achievements but the fact we can have mods straight up unlock them makes them worthless so I'm questioning if I'll even be playing sp anymore

 

[Silens]

achievements no longer matter

Did they ever matter? I mean, they're nothing more than small incentives to try something new, or to remind you of the things you've done. They're not something you'd ever go around and brag about, right? Right?

Or do you mean to tell me you only play the game for the achievements, and only then if as many people as possible are locked out of them? I can't even begin to comprehend having to play games with that mindset, that sounds incredibly bitter to me.

 

[Emperor 1997]

This just in, achievements no longer matter
Sad day imho

Don't get me wrong, I would have been ok with cosmetic mods not disabling achievements but the fact we can have mods straight up unlock them makes them worthless so I'm questioning if I'll even be playing sp anymore

Can you please, let everyone play as they like?

If someone gets an Achievement via Mod, why should you care?

Achievements are personal.

 

[boorkie]

Did they ever matter? I mean, they're nothing more than small incentives to try something new, or to remind you of the things you've done. They're not something you'd ever go around and brag about, right? Right?

Or do you mean to tell me you only play the game for the achievements, and only then if as many people as possible are locked out of them? I can't even begin to comprehend having to play games with that mindset, that sounds incredibly bitter to me.

I actually mostly play grand multiplayer campaigns and occasionally I'd try and compete for a rare achievement in sp to test out my CK3 skills

Yeah you're right, they're an incentive to try a unique feature, play style, culture etc and I'll still probably try and get some of them but it might feel like less than accomplishment now. I'll have to wait and see I guess

 

[Atalvyr]

This just in, achievements no longer matter
Sad day imho

Don't get me wrong, I would have been ok with cosmetic mods not disabling achievements but the fact we can have mods straight up unlock them makes them worthless so I'm questioning if I'll even be playing sp anymore

The majority of the playerbase could already unlock achievement at-will, thanks to Steam Achievement Manager.

 

[Silens]

it might feel like less than accomplishment now

In what way, if I may ask? When you play the game and get an achievement, you get something to remember the thing you've done. That's it. Does it really matter if or how many other players also have or not have the small colored pic in their list?

Most mods don't make the game easier anyway, or merely change things completely unrelated. Is it really fair not to give those players the same courtesy of small colored pics telling them about the things they've done ingame?

To be precise, do you feel that for example your "Until Death Do Us Part" (Marry another character) is a bigger achievement for you, because I don't have it on grounds of using a mod to add more clothing and throne rooms? Would it reduce your enjoyment of the game if I suddenly got the achievement?

 

[Tilarium]

I will confirm that. It was decided to not mention it in the DD, so it wouldn't overshadow the discussion on the fantastic work the art department has put in, so if you're going to discuss it: keep it in this thread The spicy thing is you can get achievements without ironman, and you can get them while running mods. There are some conditions that will disable it, but you can look at those in the patch notes when they come.

While it means you can make mods that instantly unlocks the achievements, the Crow of Judgement will be gazing upon cheaters. Somewhere, somehow, there will be a Crow of Judgement looking at you.

YAY! I imagined there would be some restrictions but this is awesome news and you have no idea how happy.... and sad you have made me. Sad because I've paid so little attention to the modding scene, it's not going to become a focus and I will pay lots of attention and spend lots of time looking through it. In fact, that's what today will be about, going through and finding a bunch of fun mods I can add to my game tomorrow with ToTo. One that I am hoping exists is seperating Rome and the Vatican so I can take Rome while a Catholic and not pissing off the Pope.

This just in, achievements no longer matter
Sad day imho

Don't get me wrong, I would have been ok with cosmetic mods not disabling achievements but the fact we can have mods straight up unlock them makes them worthless so I'm questioning if I'll even be playing sp anymore

Sure, people will add mods that automatically unlock achievements. That's their right. Some of us just want to play the game with some minor little tweaks or changes and still earn our achievements. Now we can, and this is awesome!

The majority of the playerbase could already unlock achievement at-will, thanks to Steam Achievement Manager.

I actually do that program, but I use it to remove achievements so I can earn them again! LOL

 

[Atalvyr]

I actually do that program, but I use it to remove achievements so I can earn them again! LOL

Mad lad! I use it to unlock achievements when I have "won" a playthrough and getting the achievement would just be a matter of sitting at speed 5 and painting the map. While I like a good challenge, I don't have enough game-time on a daily basis to be bothered with 10 hours of busywork when the outcome is inevitable.

 

[tsr-aph]

As someone whose playset is almost all visual (Only have Nerfed artefact claims and Trick or Trait), I'm very happy with this decision. There is a very fine line between playing a completely different game and tweaking the rules to make it more enjoyable, and unless we want a mod vetting program with PDX to approve achievement-compatible mods, this needed to happen.

 

[TacticalRetreat]

Almost certainly.

Personally, I just hope the number of "starting as..." achievements is kept to a minimum.

You and me both. A lot of them also don't really make much sense, like the Fika one. You can't become a Duke, or you'll fail. But you are expected to spread your culture. What difference does make holding a Duke title hold?

Just an achievement to get you to play in Africa, because otherwise almost nobody would.

The spicy thing is you can get achievements without ironman, and you can get them while running mods. There are some conditions that will disable it, but you can look at those in the patch notes when they come.

While it means you can make mods that instantly unlocks the achievements, the Crow of Judgement will be gazing upon cheaters. Somewhere, somehow, there will be a Crow of Judgement looking at you.

You are presenting this information like it is somehow a good thing. Why have achievements at all then, if you can just cheat and give them to yourself?

 

[Silens]

Why have achievements at all then, if you can just cheat and give them to yourself?

Let me ask you this way: why do you care if somebody has or hasn't achievements? You stand to gain nothing from either, nor do you see it anywhere, nor can they be used for anything. I simply don't understand where the need comes from to police other people's colored pics in their steam profile.

 

[CollectorOfBolts]

I will confirm that. It was decided to not mention it in the DD, so it wouldn't overshadow the discussion on the fantastic work the art department has put in, so if you're going to discuss it: keep it in this thread The spicy thing is you can get achievements without ironman, and you can get them while running mods. There are some conditions that will disable it, but you can look at those in the patch notes when they come.

Hurray! Thank you!

This just in, achievements no longer matter
Sad day imho

Don't get me wrong, I would have been ok with cosmetic mods not disabling achievements but the fact we can have mods straight up unlock them makes them worthless so I'm questioning if I'll even be playing sp anymore

You are presenting this information like it is somehow a good thing. Why have achievements at all then, if you can just cheat and give them to yourself?

This discussion has been well-explored and no one on the side of limiting achievements seems to have anything more than the argument that they find achievements meaningless without the ironman and checksum requirements. For a sizable list of reasons in favor of this change and a rebuttal to the meaninglessness argument, see this other discussion thread.

Also note that the suggestion thread asking for this shot to the front page of the (vote-sorted) suggestions sub-forum quite quickly (it was only started after the V3 team announced that they were no enforcing ironman and checksum requirements for achievements).

In both of the aforementioned threads as well as everywhere else this has come up, both the number of posters and the post reactions indicate that a large majority is in favor of this move.

And, to top it all off, @Wokeg once stated that locking achievements behind ironman and the checksum made the system is "an absolute ... pain to work with", so they had good reason to do this even just for their own sanity and ability to get things done.

 

[Wokeg]

^^' Yeah, someone suggested a fun achievement yesterday and I actually felt a mild sense of enthusiasm for implementing it voluntarily. Which is uhh, the first time that's ever happened. Usually I avoid them like a cat fleeing the rain, with about half as much dignity and twice the screeching. Will be nice to make 'cheevos without them being nearly so much of a faff — maybe we can actually scatter them throughout development a bit more, make more of them.

Of course, I know you're all good, dignified people and that absolutely all of you will continue to unlock Saga in Stone in the way the gods intended. Manually. The Crow will be watching if you don't.

 

[Blodhevn]

Hurray! Thank you!




This discussion has been well-explored and no one on the side of limiting achievements seems to have anything more than the argument that they find achievements meaningless without the ironman and checksum requirements. For a sizable list of reasons in favor of this change and a rebuttal to the meaninglessness argument, see this other discussion thread.

Also note that the suggestion thread asking for this shot to the front page of the (vote-sorted) suggestions sub-forum quite quickly (it was only started after the V3 team announced that they were no enforcing ironman and checksum requirements for achievements).

In both of the aforementioned threads as well as everywhere else this has come up, both the number of posters and the post reactions indicate that a large majority is in favor of this move.

And, to top it all off, @Wokeg once stated that locking achievements behind ironman and the checksum made the system is "an absolute ... pain to work with", so they had good reason to do this even just for their own sanity and ability to get things done.

You consider the argument meaningless,while the ones who wish to keep it ironman would find achievement meaningless if it isnt under a requirement?
People decide what has meaning to them through different reasons(as you clearly disregarded their argument because you dont agree).

personally im on the side of limiting it, because its supposed to be an achievement and it would not be an achievement if its easy to get. but its done now so no reason to cry about it. Just hope there are some interesting ones that would make me want to play them(ive achievements ive not completed just because they dont interest me). Personally i thought opening them up to mods that didnt really change the gameplay would be a good middle ground as long as you played ironman.

Theres lots of things in life that are only achievements due to them not being easily obtained or requires effort to achieve. As an adult having a car liscence is not an achievement because "everyone" has it, however being a doctor is because few people can achieve it. Might be a bit silly comparing such things to achievement, but fufillment is part of the gaming experience and is calculated by the developers. (and they decided to go with what seems to be the majority's point of view)

 

[DreadLindwyrm]

I guess this means that I can go ahead and get the extra coat of arms/flag and Holy Symbol mods now then. :|

Any chance of a bit more information on what sorts of mods will (or might) still block achievements? That way it makes it easier to go mod hunting ahead of time and at least bookmark the interesting ones.

I presume total conversion mods will block them so that you don't get weird moments where you're playing in a GoT setting and suddenly unlock something like the Portuguese Duke to King achievement because province numbers are the same?

 

[CollectorOfBolts]

You consider the argument meaningless,while the ones who wish to keep it ironman would find achievement meaningless if it isnt under a requirement?
People decide what has meaning to them through different reasons(as you clearly disregarded their argument because you dont agree).

You misunderstand me. The argument against this change is not in itself meaningless, but one of meaninglessness: that the removal of the requirements makes achievements meaningless.

My rebuttal to that can be found in the afore-linked thread:

Achievements without Ironman = fakes. If you want to be known as a fake, keep insisting Paradox drops the Ironman requirement for achievements.

From my original post:

• Cheating has always been possible from simple save-scumming to third-party applications that can be used to simply grant achievements.
• There are many other moddable games that allow achievements without an iron man equivalent and their completion rates are not obviously diluted from cheating (Civ6 is a common example here: https://steamcommunity.com/stats/289070/achievements | https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...-55-achievements.1538861/page-8#post-28426279 .)

I really don't understand this stance that ironman must be required for achievements to have any meaning. The number of people actively cheating is so small as to be inconsequential. All that removing the ironman requirement will do is make achievements that should be common better reflect reality (33% completion of the achievement for getting married in CK3 is not realistic); all evidence points to the more difficult achievements retaining their low completion rates.

 

[Blodhevn]

You misunderstand me. The argument against this change is not in itself meaningless, but one of meaninglessness: that the removal of the requirements makes achievements meaningless.

My rebuttal to that can be found in the afore-linked thread:

I could argue but i dont see the point when they've made the changes already. Ive voiced my opinion before but never really engaged in the dicussion as it was quite clear i was in the minority. Im just hoping for some fun ones now as the achievement for me was part of the incentive & obviously to take inspiration for new runs. But a lot of the time i played until i had it and quit.

But on a side note, Dlc looks sick

 

[b333]

IMO arguments against this (very welcome) change would have made sense to me if CK3 was not as stringent as it is with which mods disable achievements. It's not even like other PDX games I've played, such as Stellaris, where you can at least mod the UI and use various QoL and visual tweaks and still earn achievements. I don't quite know why CK3 is different in this regard but you can barely do anything in CK3 without disabling achievements.

Like, guys, I just want some new art. Or new icons. Or hats, I like hats. It makes no sense to make us have to choose between that and achievements, and if discerning mods like that from gameplay altering ones is too much work then, well... even assuming they ever actually mattered in the first place (debatable), it's better to go with a blanket "allow all mods" than a blanket ban.