I'm just curious what are the best idea groups to take right off the bat for them? The first 3 groups, what should they be?
Never played as Muscovy
- Thread starter Jay916
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You could take any and it's going to be strong. I'd just stay away from quantity, humanism, navy, and maritime.
1.8 has seriously nerfed a colonising Russia play, but it's probably still a good way to go. Expansion first, despite it being admin, is not a bad idea. You can use dip points to annex vassals such as Finland and any you rip out of Lithuania.
Expansion so you can quickly expand into Siberia. Defensive for the good bonusses. Trade to funnel your Dip points and its quite rewarding.
because you need both religion and expansion asap, I'd argue its best to start with an admin idea and try to get lvl 2 admin advisor.
You dont need religion early on though, so take Expansion> Influence> Religion> Quantity
You dont need religion early on though, so take Expansion> Influence> Religion> Quantity
Expansion first definitely, then;
Quality or Defensive, second
Humanism or Religious, third, choose one, what for you play.
Quality or Defensive, second
Humanism or Religious, third, choose one, what for you play.
Muscovy is my favorite nation to play -- so many interesting options. I'd agree that quality ideas are nice to have -- you won't be wanting for quantity, that's for sure. I'm in the 1700's and I have over 500k manpower. Turn those endless hordes at your disposal into decent fighters and you'll be an unstoppable military machine.
I would go for Religious first. Early on you can only expand into Novgorod and Hordes, and you'll need Religious to convert the later.
but with quantity, i could have 700k and be able to afford to wage costly inefficient wars because sheer numbers will win my battles
By 1700s, most of the majors should be dead or optimized in size by a great margin, unless of course you for some reason went expanding into Asia while leaving european powers unchecked. Hence it becomes a matter of winning wars faster and for that quantity is of lesser use than the alternatives.
Yeah. There are three major things one has to time properly: Religion switch, Westernization and joining HRE. I'm yet to figure out what's the best way of doing them all with most efficiency.
That's true -- you could go that route and really max out your greatest strengths. But once you've got manpower and force limits that high (I'm now over 600k), it's pretty difficult to ever exhaust your manpower. The advantage I currently have with my Russia is that I have endless amounts of soldiers, but my quality is (almost) on par with the strong western nations. I can fight France without having to bring overwhelming numbers (though I can do that anyway).
The only frustrating thing for me as Russia is that, if you play your cards right, you will grow into one of the mightiest nations the world has ever seen -- but by then it's usually too late. I'm in the 1760's now and still recovering from a massive land grab into Poland, so I don't know if I'll ever get the chance to try some crazy, massive European conquest or something.
Two of three of those goals totally butchers the history of Russia.
no. stop posting that shit.
But i never have to worry because of that endless manpower
I haven't played Muscovy in 1.8 yet, but I think Religious is a must have as a first or second idea group if you plan to take down the Hordes in the early game.
If you are plannin on westernization as soon as possible, it's easiest to do so on the expense of DIP and ADM technology, keeping up with military. That being said, as you'll probably spend enough of DIP points in wars, by diplo-annexing, war-exhaustion already picking admin idea first is the best option.
You'll need religious and expansion soon. Even after some 10 Russian playthroughs I haven't yet figured out which one I should pick as the first one. WIth expansion you'll start colonising Siberia sooner. Waiting to discover the neighbouring provinces can sometimes be a pain in the ass and makes you wonder if expansiong as 1st is worth it, however it's great having that CB sooner than later. Religious on the other hand has Deus Vult CB that is great in early game and enables you to convert those masses of Sunni provinces.
Among the first 3 ideas I ussualy pick defensive. It's generaly underated, while it's as if made for Russia in particular. If you don't sweep Danemark, Sweden, Poland+Lithuania by the time you fill that out, it's practicaly your war winner. Lure 3 times stronger enemies deep into Russia, wait for a while, watch their manpower melt and win - it's that simple.
After that it's the ussual combination of offensive, influence, diplomatic for some, aristocracy maybee, Innovative etc.
quantity surely helps early game, but 100 years in game it becomes an overkill. You might like that, but at some point with the already infinite manpower IMO you're better off with any of the defensive/offensive/aristocracy/quality idea groups. Matter of playing styles, yet the ultimate uber-Russia doesn't need quantity.
humanist is a great idea group, however as we're talking Russia, it can't replace religious and you don't want to pass on expansion. Personaly due to +5%tech, +1leader, -5 war exhaustion, tradition decay bonuses and advisor costs I'd even pick innovative in front of humanist. When combining religious culture conversion costs with the bonus you get from Russian national ideas and with influence+religious policy, culture conversion costs you I believe 8.5 dip points per BT. That's about the tipping point when culture conversion becomes usefull.
trade doesn't work out for Russia untill you own vast areas in Asia, so basicaly that' more of that7th, 8th late game idea as far as I am concerned
it's tempting to combine sudebniks' -15% coring cost with administrative -25% , but you won't need as many mercenaries as with some other countries and passing out on administrative untill 3rd admin idea, somewhat makes you wonder if you actually need it at all
You'll need religious and expansion soon. Even after some 10 Russian playthroughs I haven't yet figured out which one I should pick as the first one. WIth expansion you'll start colonising Siberia sooner. Waiting to discover the neighbouring provinces can sometimes be a pain in the ass and makes you wonder if expansiong as 1st is worth it, however it's great having that CB sooner than later. Religious on the other hand has Deus Vult CB that is great in early game and enables you to convert those masses of Sunni provinces.
Among the first 3 ideas I ussualy pick defensive. It's generaly underated, while it's as if made for Russia in particular. If you don't sweep Danemark, Sweden, Poland+Lithuania by the time you fill that out, it's practicaly your war winner. Lure 3 times stronger enemies deep into Russia, wait for a while, watch their manpower melt and win - it's that simple.
After that it's the ussual combination of offensive, influence, diplomatic for some, aristocracy maybee, Innovative etc.
quantity surely helps early game, but 100 years in game it becomes an overkill. You might like that, but at some point with the already infinite manpower IMO you're better off with any of the defensive/offensive/aristocracy/quality idea groups. Matter of playing styles, yet the ultimate uber-Russia doesn't need quantity.
humanist is a great idea group, however as we're talking Russia, it can't replace religious and you don't want to pass on expansion. Personaly due to +5%tech, +1leader, -5 war exhaustion, tradition decay bonuses and advisor costs I'd even pick innovative in front of humanist. When combining religious culture conversion costs with the bonus you get from Russian national ideas and with influence+religious policy, culture conversion costs you I believe 8.5 dip points per BT. That's about the tipping point when culture conversion becomes usefull.
trade doesn't work out for Russia untill you own vast areas in Asia, so basicaly that' more of that7th, 8th late game idea as far as I am concerned
it's tempting to combine sudebniks' -15% coring cost with administrative -25% , but you won't need as many mercenaries as with some other countries and passing out on administrative untill 3rd admin idea, somewhat makes you wonder if you actually need it at all
Throughout your playthrough there are a few idea groups you really should get through the game. Here they are in no particular order.
expansion so you can colonise and kill the filthy hordes with good casus belli
religious so you can convert the filthy hordes to glorious orthodoxy and turn them into russians
defensive so invaders will be killed by winter attrition
And influence because it is just generally good for a huge nation that expands. Also having Influence paired with religious gives you the possible policy to reduce culture conversion cost by a further 20% culture conversion cost reduction. This paired with Oprichina and Religious ideas gives you a total of -65% culture conversion cost. Russia is the only game I've played where I've aimed to convert the (unnacepted) culture of every province I conquer because it's just so cheap.
Now that Tartar has been split into different smaller groups, hoping to accept one is futile. Don't get Humanist when you can just convert them all for only 35% of their original cost.
expansion so you can colonise and kill the filthy hordes with good casus belli
religious so you can convert the filthy hordes to glorious orthodoxy and turn them into russians
defensive so invaders will be killed by winter attrition
And influence because it is just generally good for a huge nation that expands. Also having Influence paired with religious gives you the possible policy to reduce culture conversion cost by a further 20% culture conversion cost reduction. This paired with Oprichina and Religious ideas gives you a total of -65% culture conversion cost. Russia is the only game I've played where I've aimed to convert the (unnacepted) culture of every province I conquer because it's just so cheap.
Now that Tartar has been split into different smaller groups, hoping to accept one is futile. Don't get Humanist when you can just convert them all for only 35% of their original cost.
I usually take Expansion first (so I can get colonizing Siberia as soon as Perm annexes), followed by Defensive (to reduce your own attrition in your territory and increase that of your enemies), followed by Religious (probably even more important now that it's harder to get Tartar accepted). Offensive and Quantity are both good to nab too, so while I usually unlock those later you could always take one of 'em instead of Defensive.