Neutrality is chaos

[Madijeis]

I have to admit, in almost 400 hours of playing EUIV I never used the forums for stupid noobish questions, I just did runs, failed them, understood the failures, and failed again. But give up. Tried the wiki, wasn't useful at all.
I am doing several attempts for a Sweden run, understanding how to handle expansion, attrition, the Reform... 2 Days ago I started a run, everything was going fine, then the Japan update. Goddamn, guess I'll have to wait January to play with my favorite mods. I still started another run with Sweden though, because I reeeaaally want that achievment. As always, I look up to England and Scotland to wreck the Danes fast enough so I could grab Ingermanland and Noteborg from Novgorod before Muscovy terminated them. Then I see a very amusing feature of the new update

Spoiler: What

"Damn" I said, when I understood that I had to spend some time to develop a relationship with my favorite liberators. And so I sent my diplomats.

Spoiler: Why won't you love me T_T

What the hell? Why is there such a penalty for neutral? There is already a -20 modifier for that!

Is there a way that makes me able to turn them friendly? Do I have to reach, like, 150 relations? Also, consider the fact that I play on a rotten potato, if it's faster for me to just RNG my way out of this, just say it. Oh, and, btw

Spoiler: Burgundy, you have a PORT

That's a bug and it's unacceptable.

Of course I saw if there was someone else willing to take my cause, but the only friendly neighbour I have is Norway, wich has less than 50 liberty desire.

 

[Ulfing]

Neutrality is a bug.

https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...urn-friendly-under-any-circumstances.1060394/

That's a bug and it's unacceptable.

That one isn't a bug. Burgundy may have a port but if it doesn't have the fleet capacity to move stacks into the war then it won't ever support independence because it causes a AI exploit with warscore calculation.

 

[Thrake]

Rivalry towards Denmark should really trump neutrality towards Sweden. Rivalry means Scotland dreams of trolling Denmark in any possible way, but then it refuses to help break Denmark into 1/3 of its province because they're not your best bud. But what better than a good war against the Danes to become best buds?

No access is a bit overdone too, it makes sense somehow but the AI will still get the malus if there's just a line of provinces of one single owner that is pretty guaranteed to give access.

 

[Madijeis]

Neutrality is a bug.

https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...urn-friendly-under-any-circumstances.1060394/



That one isn't a bug. Burgundy may have a port but if it doesn't have the fleet capacity to move stacks into the war then it won't ever support independence because it causes a AI exploit with warscore calculation.

Bloody hell, when will they fix that? I really wanted to play Sweden goddamnit. Guess I'll stand by.

 

[Robert de Bruce]

Might be best if you revert to previous patch and continue your old save. But beside of that, for what do you need Scotland to support your independece as Sweden? For occupying Orkney? Usually you should as Sweden be able to defeat Denmark and Norway in your independence war alone. Only if they have a big ally like Muscowy or Poland you might need help. But since Denmark uses 3 diploslots for subjects, this shouldn't be the case in every start.

 

[Ulfing]

Bloody hell, when will they fix that? I really wanted to play Sweden goddamnit. Guess I'll stand by.

I wouldn't be surprised if a hotfix beta wasn't up by the end of the week.

Might be best if you revert to previous patch and continue your old save.

The previous patch is horribly bugged in other areas. You'll want a pre-CoC patch for the smoothest run.

Usually you should as Sweden be able to defeat Denmark and Norway in your independence war alone.

Yeah, you want to declare once Denmark's army is on Gotland and before they get allies, then storm the Norwegian army and eat the Danish army as it is withdrawn from Gotland - they'll have to make 2-3 trips to get all the troops back and if you're lucky they'll land somewhere stupid like Scania. You only need 22% warscore I think it is to break free, after that pick up allies and go back for the land. Not as devastating as when you can march in with England, but its a fair work around.

Now to try and figure out how to break free as Naples without allies...

 

[Madijeis]

Might be best if you revert to previous patch and continue your old save. But beside of that, for what do you need Scotland to support your independece as Sweden? For occupying Orkney? Usually you should as Sweden be able to defeat Denmark and Norway in your independence war alone. Only if they have a big ally like Muscowy or Poland you might need help. But since Denmark uses 3 diploslots for subjects, this shouldn't be the case in every start.

I showed Scotland, but if you looked into the tiny pixel of my diplo tab, you would've seen England as well. Anyway, I prefer starting with England and Scotland as allies, because they can land in Denmark and help me blockade them, or atleast distract the Danish and Norwegian Navy. I know I can take them on by myself, but it's just way smoother for my terrible economy and it's faster. Also, the Danish and Norwegian navy is most of the time able to fight mine, and even to defeat it. Don't underestimate little Scotland, combined with Engand it can cause a load of damage.
EDIT:Also, the previous AI sucked at landings

 

[Madijeis]

Yeah, you want to declare once Denmark's army is on Gotland and before they get allies, then storm the Norwegian army and eat the Danish army as it is withdrawn from Gotland - they'll have to make 2-3 trips to get all the troops back and if you're lucky they'll land somewhere stupid like Scania. You only need 22% warscore I think it is to break free, after that pick up allies and go back for the land. Not as devastating as when you can march in with England, but its a fair work around.

Now to try and figure out how to break free as Naples without allies...

The Norwegians run away always, and are a pain to find and destroy.
Naples is actually really boring to play for my slow PC, since you need the Iberian Wedding to make sure you have someone to support your indipendence. Or wait for a pretender, that happens VERY very often.

 

[Robert de Bruce]

Since you can break free with Norway also, I don't see your point with terrible eco. And when you know how to do it alone, why are you so ourageous? Just because you want it super-smooth?

 

[Madijeis]

Since you can break free with Norway also, I don't see your point with terrible eco. And when you know how to do it alone, why are you so ourageous? Just because you want it super-smooth?

Norway has 20 liberty desire. Have you ever seen Norway not getting inherited by Denmark? Also, I have 20 Liberty desire. Denmark just supports loyalists.
And you can't declare without LD at atleast 50

 

[Ulfing]

Eh, Norway wandered close to the border at the start of the war and I stack wiped them.

Even got 2 provinces for myself out of the war and a decent King. Denmark tried landing troops in Scania and Kalmar, stackwiped them. Needed 2 loans only.

I like this King though so I might even carry on with the save - cheers!

Naples is actually really boring to play for my slow PC, since you need the Iberian Wedding to make sure you have someone to support your indipendence. Or wait for a pretender, that happens VERY very often.

Castile and another of Aragon's rivals (usually France/Hungary) were very supportive as soon as the true ends last patch, so you're independent by '47. Then began the run to eat Sicily and Sardinia before the wedding fired. Right now the only chance is waiting for Aragon to get utterly shafted in a war as their navy is massive compared to Naples.

 

[Robert de Bruce]

I meant you can play Norway and break free with them. Ok, I forgot the LD rule. But you can also wait for the first war, stay at home and watch denmark lose troops, then you might be able to declare independence. But if you just want the achievement, go back to 1.23 or 1.22 (in 1.22 I broke free with Norway, it's easy then with Sweden).

 

[Madijeis]

I meant you can play Norway and break free with them. Ok, I forgot the LD rule. But you can also wait for the first war, stay at home and watch denmark lose troops, then you might be able to declare independence. But if you just want the achievement, go back to 1.23 or 1.22 (in 1.22 I broke free with Norway, it's easy then with Sweden).

Did you forget? I have a rotten potato, waiting for such a thing would be excruciatingly slow. And the precedent version had terrible bugs as well. I'll wait for this week.

 

[Bouchart]

What makes a man turn neutral? Lust for gold? Power? Or were you just born with a heart full of neutrality?

 

[schondetta]

If you dominate the danish navy you dont need allies to support your independance. Build 2 or 3 heavies and let your combat ability and human intuition handle the rest

 

[Madijeis]

If you dominate the danish navy you dont need allies to support your independance. Build 2 or 3 heavies and let your combat ability and human intuition handle the rest

Look at the top of the screenshot

 

[DS_McWerp]

This is the second easiest independence war in the game to win. You can win it 90% of the time with no allies at all.

 

[Madijeis]

This is the second easiest independence war in the game to win. You can win it 90% of the time with no allies at all.

It's no use if you can't even get to 50 LD.

 

[Ulfing]

It's no use if you can't even get to 50 LD.

What? The player doesn't need 50 LD to declare. I even posted screenshots above of how easy it is to do it solo.

Its fixed in the hotfix from today so its not an issue anymore.

 

[Madijeis]

What? The player doesn't need 50 LD to declare. I even posted screenshots above of how easy it is to do it solo.

Its fixed in the hotfix from today so its not an issue anymore.

Last time I checked it was like this, but now someone lock this thread because this has been solved.