• We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.

Swami

Captain
Aug 29, 2014
361
162
My tactic was a bit different, I formed the Netherlands from Gelre with all the entire low countries under my banner before 1500, this was the second time and even more succesfull then the last time... My experience is that containing France is much easier when you ally them, they are queit faithfull and will follow you in almost every war against HRE, Burgundy and England. And as long as you are pulling them into wars, they don't declare their own wars. So I used them for 40 / 50 years. Kept them busy with my wars in which they didn't gain anything. This way I had France 40 years into the game without gaining a single province. While I had Burgundy release low country states in every war and vassalized them afterwards to keep AE relatively low. Because Castille and Austria got their time of peace they have become stronger. After having a solid southern border with France the alliance will break eventually because off borderfriction. But France now has neighbours that are up for the fight. I had allready allied Denmark and when my vassals got annexed one by one I also allied Aragon, Ireland and Britanny. To keep England, France and Castille from expanding there actually. I now have France contained, Austria grew strong because I kept France in other wars in the first decades. Castille is allied with Austria and France can't beat them both. Britanny is my ally and will make me leader if France declares war with them, pulling in Denmark and Aragon. Declaring war on Aragon pulls in me, Savoy and Austria which is again to much. It isn't that they haven't tried to break out, but I've got them locked since their only allies are England and Hungary. I don't feel like taking out France either, since I'm having problems with the OP Castille, Austria and Portugal alliance. I really need a relative strong France there because I can't effort that Castille or Austria fil in that gab.

So I'm pretty much balancing the game now. I haven't expanded anything in europe for over hundred years now, France / England and Austria / Portugal / Castille seem to be perfectly balanced as neither side declares war on the other. Which is perfect for me, tipping this balance in favour of either one of the alliances would be a real problem for me. It seems though that France / England are relatively contained, while Castiles and Portuals colonial possesions keep growing and Austria steadily expands inside the HRE and east. I'm foreseeing troubles now that my colonial possesions are growing towards those from Castille. But I'm really scared of declaring war at this point since there is really no saying what will happen then. I hope France / Engeland gets into a war with them soon and take adventage of that... Otherwise it's a real problem, since every year I wait Austria and Castille grow stronger.

Anyway I think that since as the Netherlands you'll be going colonial you can't really afford it to destroy England / France, it really gives Castille / Portugal to much free play in the Americas. In the late game you'll regret it that you don't have something to counterbalance them. At least in my case I'm glad that France and England still are arround and are colonizing. They aren't a thread to me, but strong enough to be usefull when they get into a war with Castille / Portugal so that I can join in to give the finishing blow.

With allying them you should be able to controle France and their wars the first decades, give Austria a head start and they'll do perfectly fine containing France later in the game and otherwise you can always step in with you allies if Austria is losing their war.
 

slv

Captain
17 Badges
Nov 21, 2014
389
352
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Magicka: Wizard Wars Founder Wizard
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Crusader Kings II
A small fact which a lot of players (including me) does not know.

After Burgundian Inheritance fires, the Inheritor (usually Austria) gets an event where he is asked to cede Inherited cores to HRE nations or suffer a prestige hit. And AI always choose to cede.

So, if in your war with Burgundy you take Holland and Breda, release Holland and Brabant then after Burgundian inheritance you will get Zeeland, Brabant (sadly university is destroyed afterwards) and Limburg for free. Saves a ton of AE, you will not worry about unlawful terriorry that way too.

The main downside is missing the Amsterdam trade income early on, but you can instead release just Brabant and keep Amsterdam. Keep in mind that wealthy vassal Holland contributes to your forcelimits quite a lot.
 

Stadhouder

Colonel
88 Badges
Aug 30, 2011
979
704
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Magicka
  • Surviving Mars: First Colony Edition
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • BATTLETECH
  • Surviving Mars
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Stellaris: Lithoids
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Stellaris: Distant Stars
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Cities: Skylines Industries
  • BATTLETECH: Flashpoint
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Prison Architect
  • Cities: Skylines - Campus
  • BATTLETECH: Season pass
  • Stellaris
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Victoria 2
  • 500k Club
  • BATTLETECH: Heavy Metal
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Cities: Skylines - Natural Disasters
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Cities in Motion
So, if in your war with Burgundy you take Holland and Breda, release Holland and Brabant then after Burgundian inheritance you will get Zeeland, Brabant (sadly university is destroyed afterwards) and Limburg for free. Saves a ton of AE, you will not worry about unlawful terriorry that way too.

I guess the reason the university is destroyed is a nation can only have one, and Austria already has one. In 1.8 you can press claims for vassals, so you could try to press Brabant's claim on Brabant before the the even fire's.

More general on this topic, in my three playthroughs as Dutch minor it seems to be heavily influenced on luck. Does Burgundy warn you right at the start, does the inheritance fire and how early; factors you can't control and heavily inflence strategy.

Personally I have a bit of roleplay in my idea groups, so I don't pick exploration early, as how the hell would Friesland know that there's a whole new world. I went with Naval (would be be Maritime), Plutocracy and Innovative first (based on Frisian Freedom and Frisian naval trade traditions) then Defensive and Exploration. I used the uncooperative ally strategy with France to beat down Burgundy, had most of the low lands before the inheritance fired. Divided Imperial Burgundy between France and me. Then France and me had 2 or 3 wars and then became best friends again. My answer to France's military was going over 2 or 3 diplo-relations limit with allies, spent a lot on Mercs, and use most of the trade fleet to blockade France. Very expensive, I guess hostile period with France did cost me a couple of thousand ducats and a few hundred DP all together, but you can beat France without focussing on military strength.

When we were Friends a had a diplomat practically permanently in Paris to improve relations. That meant he wasn't able to improve relations with other neighbours, but that doesn't matter, as France happily beats down any continental enemy for you, letting you fully concentrate on overseas possessions.
 
Jan 29, 2005
566
1
Here's another strategy, very aggressive and you cant afford to make a diplo mistake such as losing an ally or letting them start key wars.

With Gelre I ally France & Poland and maybe something like Bohemia and punish all the rest as much as you can. DoW constantly so that France wont get to do it first.
All the continental Europe, England, Italy, Scandinavia (except allies) are ofc disgusted (AE maybe -300-400), but the key is to ignore the small potatoes such as Hansa and Denmark and Austria and just destroy everything between France and Poland till I can face them on my own and/or I do keep an eye on relationships with Russia and Spain if I need them in the future. I cant let them join coalition or ruin a possible future alliance. Big country needs big thinking. I have a 3 separate coalition wars on a continuous cycle Gotta keep a close watch on truce dates ;) Gotta leave Austria big enough so that it'll have rival status to my allies.

RfxX75u.jpg

edit: one mistake there. I did concede the last coalition war led by England cause I wasn't aware that I can't put my fleet to protect English Channel in such case. Wasn't a necessary concede so I wouldn't have done it had I known that rule.
 
Last edited:

slv

Captain
17 Badges
Nov 21, 2014
389
352
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris: Nemesis
  • Stellaris: Federations
  • Stellaris: Megacorp
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Stellaris
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Magicka: Wizard Wars Founder Wizard
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Crusader Kings II
IIRC with DIP 7 and exploration 3 you can reach Beothuk in NA, it was true last patch at least. They reworked trade winds I think so maybe not now, but you can easily do it at DIP 7 if you hit England/Ireland, and considering how easy it is to ally France + more I don't see why you shouldn't, but it's not nearly as strong as just getting trade first.

Just tested and you can't :( Either need to wait to Dip9 (it's third idea) or get lands from England/Brittany/Ireland/Portugal.