Netherlands improvement mod

[Van der Gent]

2302;Fokker;T2302;6;1930;1944;aeronautics;technical_efficiency;electronics;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;x

AND

2317;Fokker;T2302;6;1944;1970;aeronautics;technical_efficiency;electronics;rocketry;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;x

To make it historical correct. Use any years you'd like. (Don't mean that 44' is correct but just that having Fokker with rocketry skill 1936 is a-historical.)

 

[Van der Gent]

Would a good Dutch CV name maybe, the "HMS Vliegende Hollander" (HMS Flying Dutchman)?

WooT WooT!

 

[cdcdrr]

I've been thinking about including the names of some noblity for warships. Asside from the obvious King Willem 1-3, Queen Wilhelmina and Louis Napoleon, I need names from Counts and Dukes to. If anyone knows how Dutch historians in general rank the nobles from the Low Countries based on their importance (and relevancy to the Netherlands) I can better sort them out.

I think that if there was a similar ranking for Admirals based on their skill, valour and achievements, I can decide how to assign their names to.

 

[egslim]

Note that historically Dutch nobility has been fairly insignificant, the country has always been run by wealthy merchants (regenten) or royalty. I found lists of dutch warships in the 20th century:
http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lijst_van_onderzeeboten_bij_de_Koninklijke_Marine
http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lijst_van_fregatten_bij_de_Koninklijke_Marine
http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lijst_van_jagers_bij_de_Koninklijke_Marine
http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lijst_van_mijnenjagers_in_dienst_bij_de_Koninklijke_Marine
http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lijst_van_overige_schepen_in_dienst_bij_de_Koninklijke_Marine
Running through the names you'll find the following:
1) Cities, provinces and other geographical names are popular.
2) Admirals and other famous seamen.
3) Animals
4) A few scientists (Snellius) and a regent (Johan de Witt), but no sign of any nobles.

edited to add:
Ranked in order of importance: jonkheer, (erf)ridder, baron, burggraaf, graaf, markgraaf, (hertog), prins, koning.

 

[cdcdrr]

I think there are nobles who can lend names to ships. Count Floris V of Holland or Duke Henry II for example. But it is a guess as to which ones are the most important.

Personally, I think the current list is messy. A bit accurate, but messy. The CLs for example start with Tromp and Heemskerck, the names of the next cruisers to be built by the Netherlands. It then gets a little more confused. Eendracht is given as a name, even though it would later be named Zeven Provinciën since Eendracht would be possibly used for the Battlecruisers. Then the theme shifts again to the actual provinces; Holland, Zeeland, Friesland, etc. :wacko: Usually, I just don't bother to understand and rename all my ships to something consistent (CLs to province names, CVs to Admirals, CAs to Indonesian islands). But for the mod I try to be historical, and won't imflict my orderliness on players.

It also doesn't help that the names for BBs, BCs and CVs are recycled ad infinitum. If you play Victoria and HOI1 you'll notice the same names are there as well, and if you'd look them up on a navy site the names are applied to coastal ships and battery ships. This means Hertog Hendrik could indeed be used for a Battleship, since it had been used for a pre-dreadnought age battleship. Still, it is far from definite or clear.

I want to start with a clean sleath where possible. But my head is full of half-historical names for vaguely resembling ship classes. My Battlecruiser names are based of rumor, some of the fictional names from this site http://www.combinedfleet.com/furashita/dchdex_f.htm were present in HOI1, and then the (Anglo-Dutch) light escort carriers Gadila and Macoma haunt me.

Is there a psychiatrist on the board? :wacko:

 

[egslim]

Eendracht is given as a name, even though it would later be named Zeven Provinciën since Eendracht would be possibly used for the Battlecruisers.

Perhaps that's the real issue: During the thirties the Dutch never expected to build battlecruisers, battleships or carriers, hence they didn't reserve any names for them. That's why they had to rename "Eendracht".

"De Ruyter" would be a good name for a carrier, but impossible to use if there's still a cruiser with that name. Karel Doorman has to die first for his carrier.

If you don't mind making things complicated, you could perhaps use events: Build a carrier with the name "1e vliegkampschip divisie" or something like that. Then have an event check wether that ship exists, and for the existence of the cruiser "De Ruyter". If the trigger conditions are met, the carrier is replaced/renamed as "De Ruyter".

 

[cdcdrr]

I think manually renaming the CV would be better. And I don't object to having a Karel Doorman carrier while the man is alive. Unusual, but I don't believe it will be a blight on the ship. Maybe Doorman aquired a personality cult after construction of a CV.

Although the CLs are not perfect, I can live with them being so weird. It's not hard to give them province names (but I'd hate it if I ran out of provinces). The name Eendracht for a CA however is out of place, so I'm making that an all-Indonesia lineup. And I'm gonna replace the names of all the uninhabited and insignificant islands with some that at least appear on a map of Indonesia (and won't require a magnifying glass to spot).

I already have Vliegende Hollander as a CV name. I think De Ruyter, Tromp (senior or junior?), Witte de Witt, Piet Hein, Van Speijk, Kortenear, and all would do alright for CVs as well.

If the BBs can have some noble names, that will only leave the BCs. Three of them already have a name (more or less): Gouden Leeuw, van Oranje and Eendracht. I don't know what to name the others, but probably things associated with the republic or the country's history. Such as regents, symbols and Stadholders.

 

[unmerged(44118)]

this mod is becoming very promising but as i read about the problem with philips bcoming very provicient at making tanks maybe you could remove the stuff you added from matlab and ad a new team


2316;Holland signaal apparaten;T2314;7;1930;1970;electronics;mathematics;mechanics;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;x

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thales_Nederland

 

[cdcdrr]

No worries about Philips, it's about as good at building tanks as DAF, which is a legit research team. It's more about the fact that having too many proficient tanks researchers might spoil it. But I'm safe. There only a few tech trees for tanks. And actually Philips is better with tanks destroyers, mobile artillery and such than with real tanks divisions. DAF still takes the lead in this field as well, and is also the more sensible choice. And there is the fact that most Dutch players will need Philips researching other things than tanks, they can hardly spare a research slot for some louse expensive tanks if they can have radar or computing machines from Philips.

But if Philips got one more specialty that coincided with tanks, it'd be wacky.

 

[cdcdrr]

BTW the Thales predecessor sounds interesting. Have you got a company logo/picture that'd work?

 

[unmerged(44118)]

Ill see if my father has some of it lying around here from the pre-thales time.

 

[cdcdrr]

It's been a while since I last worked on this mod, but it's certainly not been cancelled yet. But I decided to be a little more conservative with the changes, mostly with Tech Teams. I'm making sure the useless ones like Hembrug and Frits Zernike get some use by adding a little skill. I'm reorganizing the air ministers and Johannes Furstner gets a skill point and centralized execution. The only team I can see being changed is Koninklijke Schelde Mij, getting Aeronautics and a slight tweaking. But that raises the question if I should do something with NSM Amsterdam, or leave it be.

I've decided not to mess with the unit names of ships yet, as I can just rename them in game to whatever I want that makes sense.

There is not much I would change for the scenarios, but I am changing the HnMs Java and HnMs Sumatra cruisers to level I, but keep HnMs De Ruyter level II.

I'll need to alter the relationships. So far, I guess they should be like this:
England: -20 (Boer Wars and WWI blockade)
Belgium: -50 (Claiming Zeeland and Limburg)
France: 70 (Good opinion of tank army and land tactics)
USA: 100 (Long standing respect for liberty & democracy, Rooseveld's visit)

I'm also trying to find any leaders who are not currently in the game but can be added. Regarding Prins Bernhard, I've been trying to find a picture of him that is both from the WWII era and portrays him as an aviator or commander rather than just a man in a suit. If anybody has a good pic like that, please tell me where to find it.

If I can finish with the scenarios and leaders, I should have a working v1.2 ready in no time.

 

[unmerged(58739)]

About prince Bernhard. I guess you can use this one as a picture for him being a land commander:

About him portrayed as an airforce man:

I guess he's wearing an airforce uniform, but I'm not sure.

This is a nice one, don't know what uniform he's wearing

This is one where he's wearing an airforce uniform.

I hope this is of any use to you.

 

[cdcdrr]

Thanks, those will be very useful.

 

[cdcdrr]

I've run across a bug that I can't seem to fix. I added a tech team (or just replaced Ludolph van Oyen from v1.1 of this mod) and now it has a specialty it's not supposed to have. I gave it only 4 skill, Bomber Tactics, Aircraft Testing & Piloting. Yet for some reason in the game it gains General Equipment.

The only explaination I have is that the team (named after Charles Douw van der Krap) was considered for Victoria Revolutions to be a tech team that can be acquired and it took over a specialization from the Victoria tech team. The research slot is 2315. Does anybody have an idea why I get an extra, unwanted specialization?

 

[Veldmaarschalk]

The 2nd picture shows Bernhard in a naval uniform, not an airforce.

 

[unmerged(54011)]

great to hear that the mod hassend died an early death, but do you also have an option included for a fascist revolution ore something like when germay win the war that mussert may take over holland ?? and than maybe also take flanders with him in to a dietsch rijk ?? mussert was a supporter of the greater Netherlands theorie.

 

[cdcdrr]

Actually, I was wrong when I said I only needed to add leaders before I can pat myself on the back for a job well done. The events are still going to have to be made, but it's not something that will require mind-breaking patience and archive digging.

Fascist events are likely going to a Dutch affair, the chances of Germany releasing the Netherlands are slim. First, Indonesia remains a bastion for the democratic government, which prevents the in-game creation of the Netherlands for as long as it remains indipendent. Secondly, Mussert certainly wanted a greater Netherlands, but Hitler wanted a greater Germany, which encompassed the Netherlands as well. Hitler never had any intentions of letting Mussert rule anything beside his party, and the SS often considered if they could get rid of Mussert in favor of a more radical leader like Henk Feldmijer or Rost van Tonningen.

What could be a possibility is to change the election events and allow the NSB to make political gain, after which they might usurp power similarly to what Hitler did. The NSB had the Mussert Guard, which was a youth group that might have been trained to execute a coup even though Mussert chose to rise to power through the democracy he wanted to end. Even after the German invasion, Mussert's friend Johan Carp made plan the allowed him to legally become regent of the Netherlands through a vote of the (exiled and disbanded) parliament. It failed because Seyss-Inquart had to decide what happened to parliament and he made the plan unworkable on purpose. Mussert actually never did anything violent to gain power, although many partymembers never listened and were easily incited by the SS and the Nazis to do things that contributed to the Holocaust, not the NSB they were part of.

But I'm going to consider what can be done though. If all else fails, you can just use 'freedom' and manipulate the sliders to align the Netherlands with Italy and Germany.

 

[unmerged(58739)]

I made a few events simulating the dutch decision on their new navy. I dont't know if it evers is being used, but you might check it out and see if you like it:

#############################################
###### A new fleet plan
#############################################
event = {
id = 90001
random = no
country = HOL
trigger = {

}

name = "EVT_90001_NAME"
desc = "EVT_90001_DESC"
style = 0
picture = "american_naval_reinforcments3"

date = { day = 14 month = february year = 1936 }
offset = 1
deathdate = { day = 17 month = february year = 1936 }

action_a = {
name = "ACTIONNAME90001A"
command = { type = gain_tech which = 3200 }
command = { type = gain_tech which = 3210 }
command = { type = money value = -10 }
command = { type = supplies value = -5 }
}
action_b = {
name = "ACTIONNAME90001B"
command = { type = gain_tech which = 3090 }
command = { type = gain_tech which = 3030 }
command = { type = money value = -10 }
command = { type = resource which = -5 }
}
action_c = {
name = "ACTIONNAME90001C"
command = { type = sleepevent which = 90002 }
}

}

#############################################
###### Final decision on a new fleet plan
#############################################
event = {
id = 90002
random = no
country = HOL
trigger = {

}

name = "EVT_90002_NAME"
desc = "EVT_90002_DESC"
style = 0
picture = "american_naval_reinforcments3"

date = { day = 14 month = february year = 1937 }
offset = 1
deathdate = { day = 17 month = february year = 1937 }

action_a = {
name = "ACTIONNAME90002A"
command = { type = build_time which = battlecruiser value = -60 }
command = { type = build_division which = battlecruiser value = 1 }
command = { type = build_division which = battlecruiser value = 1 }
command = { type = build_division which = battlecruiser value = 1 } }
action_b = {
name = "ACTIONNAME90002B"
command = { type = build_time which = light_cruiser value = -20 }
command = { type = build_time which = destroyer value = -14 }
command = { type = build_time which = submarine value = -16 }
command = { type = build_division which = light_cruiser value = 1 }
command = { type = build_division which = light_cruiser value = 1 }
command = { type = build_division which = destroyer = 1 }
command = { type = build_division which = submarine = 1 }
}
action_c = {
name = "ACTIONNAME90002C"
command = { }
}

}


EVT_90001_NAME;A new fleet plan;;;;;;;;;;x
EVT_90001_DESC;During the 30's their were voices promoting the expansion of the dutch navy. There was the "Battlecruiser plan" which would lead to the construction of three battlecruisers. There was the "Fleet plan Deckers" named after minister of navy Deckers who wanted to built new light cruisers, destroyers and submarines. At some time it had to be decided which plan would receive the greatest some of money and resources. Of course there could also be decided to stop research on both plans. If we decide to continue research we will have to make a final decision in one year.;;;;;;;;;;x
ACTIONNAME90001A;Favour the Battlecruiser plan;;;;;;;;;;x
ACTIONNAME90001B;Favour the Fleet plan Deckers;;;;;;;;;;x
ACTIONNAME90001C;We don't need to expand are navy, cancel all research;;;;;;;;;;x

EVT_90002_NAME;Final decision on a new fleet plan;;;;;;;;;;x
EVT_90002_DESC;The time has come to make a decision about the future of the dutch navy. We can decide to approve the "Battlecruiser plan" which will lead to the construction of three battlecruisers. We can also approve "Fleet plan Deckers" which will lead to the construction of two light cruisers, a destroyer flotilla and a submarine flottilla. Of course we can still decide to abandon all projects.;;;;;;;;;;x
ACTIONNAME90002A;Start the Battlecruiser plan;;;;;;;;;;x
ACTIONNAME90002B;Start fleet plan Deckers;;;;;;;;;;x
ACTIONNAME90002C;Abandon all plans;;;;;;;;;;x


The only that needs to be changed when using these events is the tech 3200. In vanilla Holland already gained them but I think it should be deleted from the scenario file.

 

[cdcdrr]

I applaud your enthusiasm. But I have a few remarks. The technology level of the battlecruisers would likely be level 4, since the Dutch Battlecruiser plan was based off the German Scharnhorst, which is also level 4.

I can't find much info about the Deckers plan, but I suppose it was around 1936 when the idea for building more light cruisers and smaller vessels came up. It's a little early for the Battlecruiser plan at that time. But I suppose it's because the historical date, 1940, is too late for such a plan to succeed.

And just a question. Does the build_division command put the item in production or is it an instant finish? If it's going to be produced, I guess most players will forego the construction time reduction and place their battlecruiser/light ships in the queu immediately.

Although I have my doubts about the functionality of the events, I do encourage your hard work and every suggestion people have. I'm wondering what would be good events for the Netherlands.