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Osman Pasha

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So, its been a pain lately seeing rebels spawn in such large numbers. I am fine with that, but seriously, how can rebels have equal tactics, disciplines, morale with a national army?! Especially in late games, how did the rebels get their guns from without foreign support. At least give them 75% discipline instead of 100% and nerf their morale down. As for tactics, I really don't think they should have equal tactics as a national army.
 

unmerged(773066)

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The words OP, UP, Nerf & Buff should be a permaban imo.
 

unmerged(773066)

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Well, they can have equal morale or even more, if you have -100 prestige and 0 army traditions, this is very possible.

Well then your army is garbage because of the player mismanaging his country and rebels *should* have an advantage.
 

oblio-

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The words OP, UP, Nerf & Buff should be a permaban imo.
Only in a thread title or the original post, if there are exclamation marks as well.

This could actually be a decent spam filter!
 

Santoes

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Get some allies by you, open your borders, click the button that says attach to unit, run your guys at the rebels for a couple days, stop, run at them again, repeat until the ally comes over and kills them for you. It eventually works.
 

Osman Pasha

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You guys are not helping me, if you guys think this current rebel mechanics is fine then you shouldn't be talking here. This thread is not a spam, I am serious with this topic. Rebels ARE Overpowered.
 

Peelyboy

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You guys are not helping me, if you guys think this current rebel mechanics is fine then you shouldn't be talking here. This thread is not a spam, I am serious with this topic. Rebels ARE Overpowered.

I am talking here because I'm of the opinion that rebels AREN'T overpowered. They are finally, though still only very occasionally, a challenge rather than merely a nuisance. If you have any sort of reasonable income just throw some mercs in with your normal armies and it becomes simples. You actually get told when Rebels are about to appear so you can prepare suitably by increasing army maintenance, getting the mercs ready and get your armies into a position where the rebels are likely to spawn so that you can get a defensive bonus when they first appear.
 
A

AureliusBob

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You guys are not helping me, if you guys think this current rebel mechanics is fine then you shouldn't be talking here. This thread is not a spam, I am serious with this topic. Rebels ARE Overpowered.

if youre having rebel problems, just declare war on France. They will take care of them for you.
 

Arizal

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I played two very different countries (Lauenburg and Haidi-Ming) since the patch, and I can tell the experience is vastly different according to rebel depending on your situation. The smaller you are, the less room you have to deal with rebels. The bigger you are, the more rebels seems manageable because there are never überstacks. Now, I think this is normal that playing a smaller country is supposed to be more difficult, so I doesn't complain. The peasant wars in Lauenburg had also been a pain, and I thought I would rage quit a few times. But I thought I was in a race against the clock and decreased the autonomy rather fast, so this may be my problem.

Playing the Mings, I had some rebellions, but had the reflex, especially at the begining, to increase autonomy, which prevented many revolts. Harsh treatment has also scaled surprinsingly cheap with Mings and very costly with Lauenburg, perhaps because of changes or because of a different situation.

So :
- If you are little (or have the cash for that and don't have sufficient troops), don't hesitate to hire mercs to destroy rebels.
- In war, your allies can help you against them (I would like for them to do that also in peace)
- Decrease autonomy only when you think unrest would also decrease in a short amount of time (when they are at -7, -8 or lower) or when you don't care if they rebel.
- Increase autonomy when you judge a province could be a threat by revolting.

If I take into account what I said about mercenaries, sometimes increasing the autonomy could be considered as cheaper in the longrun, since you don't have to pay the mercenaries nor the possible loans. Peace can be profitable.
 

Beagá

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So, its been a pain lately seeing rebels spawn in such large numbers. I am fine with that, but seriously, how can rebels have equal tactics, disciplines, morale with a national army?! Especially in late games, how did the rebels get their guns from without foreign support. At least give them 75% discipline instead of 100% and nerf their morale down. As for tactics, I really don't think they should have equal tactics as a national army.

Use Humanism and never decrease autonomy and you will be relatively fine.

On the other hand, yes, peasant rebels should not have 100% discipline. As a matter of fact, unless supported by foreign powers the amount of cavalry and artillery for ALL rebels, except pretenders and nobles, should also be decreased.
 

nicechinos

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From the game design perspective rebels are ok. Don't be greedy, raise autonomy, sacrifice some income and manpower, fear no revolts after that. Also it does hurt but makes conquests much more manageable.
From the historical perspective:
The Khmelnytsky Uprising was a Cossack rebellion in Ukraine between the years 1648–1657 which turned into a Ukrainian war of liberation from Poland. Under the command of Hetman Bohdan Khmelnytsky, the Zaporozhian Cossacks allied with the Crimean Tatars, and the local peasantry, fought several battles against the armies and paramilitary forces of the Polish–Lithuanian Commonwealth. The result was the end of Polish szlachta control and of ecclesiastical jurisdiction for the Latin Rite Catholics and arendators) over the region.

The German Peasants' War, Great Peasants' War or Great Peasants' Revolt (German: Deutscher Bauernkrieg) was a widespread popular revolt in the German-speaking areas of Central Europe, 1524–1525. It failed because of the intense opposition of the aristocracy, who slaughtered up to 100,000 of the 300,000 poorly armed peasants and farmers. The survivors were fined and achieved few if any of their goals.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rákóczi's_War_of_Independence (Please take a look at opponents numbers). Rebel stack was quite comparable to Austria's forcelimit in historical perspective.

And just generally: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_revolutions_and_rebellions#1500.E2.80.931699
 

nicechinos

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Use Humanism and never decrease autonomy and you will be relatively fine.

On the other hand, yes, peasant rebels should not have 100% discipline. As a matter of fact, unless supported by foreign powers the amount of cavalry and artillery for ALL rebels, except pretenders and nobles, should also be decreased.

Peasants already have significant penalties; they are not resupplied, have no leaders, barely any guns and horses. With the right army composition it is essentially free army tradition.
 

grumphie

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i have not had one snignle problem dealing with rebels since the expansion. exept when i screwed up.

int hat time i've played a lto of diffrent nations. i played indian sultanates, HRE games, screwed around with NA natives. not one single time were rebels a problem as long as i played my cards correctly. i actually did the bengal game without rebels popping up outside of event and sucession induced ones(although i squashed quite a few in my vassels), as i knew my situation had a lot of potential for rebels going compeltly out of controll if i mismanaged. i lowered war exhaustion earlier than i normally would. i'd make really sure to keep out of peasants war events. i picked humanism to boost religious unity and be able to take large parts of hindu lands at once without getting lotds of rebels. i let my vassels eat the nationlism penalty instead of taking msot stuff myself.

really, unless you are expanding really really fast, decreasing autonomy instantly or just playing really badly rebels should not pose much of a problem. it's so easy to stack -unrest that rebels will reliably never pop up. and when they do, they spawn all over your nation. so you can swuash them one by one. if you are having lots of problems with rebels to the point where you think they are OP, i really wonder where you are playing and how. if you are an OPM going on an conquest spree in diffrent religon lands, yes, they can be punishing. then again, they should. rebels are no jokes. the AI could be taught to deal with them better, but the current system gives you plenty of tools to deal with them and prepare for them as long as you use your common sense. don't go wage a large war if rebels are about to pop up. lower WE if you have lot's of land that are borderline revolting. increase autonomy in the provines that cause most trouble.
 

atwix

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if youre having rebel problems, just declare war on France. They will take care of them for you.

bwahahah. This guy just sums it all up.

Use ally greater powers or enemy greater powers to clean your rebels.

The new mechanic is a lot better then the old.

Previously, if you had a big empire and a 2% revolt risk, you still could get 100k rebels in a month due to bad rng roll, in a perfectly stable empire.

Was that ideal then? No. Is it ideal now? No. But now rebels can be predicted, and their eradication planned ahead.

I started a game in 1.8 as Yaroslavl, a vassal of Russia. I still expanded as usual, rebels be damned.

Game is in fact lot easier now. There, I said it.

Only exception are areas where getting a big ally is impossible.

I bet playing Africa got lot harder now with the new rebels mechanic.
 
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