Need Some Help Changing Factions :)

[TheMoe]

I started a game a month or so ago as Germany and I noticed that Japan was doing quite poorly against China. I sent Japan some older light tanks and I guess I've thought about that game from time to time over the last month. I never finished it, but I wondered about starting over with the idea of leaving the German faction (whatever it is), and finding a way to join Japan's faction. Is that even possible? The reason I want to try is because Japan always attacks me when I capitulate the Allies and I take the rubber from Malaysia, and because I've never had the time to complete a full game playing as Germany. I would also like to have Japan's navy join mine against the US. There are a couple of holidays coming up and I just might be able to play a full game start to finish.

1. Is it possible for Germany to leave their faction and join Japan's faction?
2. If so, how? I'm not the best at the game, so I'll need some specific directions if possible. Thanks!

 

[Synicus]

Hello...

1. Faction leader can only dismantle if the faction contains it self and puppets, no allies.
2. On the political page just below the national spirit icons is your faction name with a button on the right side that looks like small flags.


3. Japan has a warrior code that makes them reluctant not go at it alone, they could reject you if you don't improve relations and fight the same war.
4. Historic, Japan should join the Axis but for some reason Marco Polo path creates there own faction, and there neutral path forces them to join Axis.
This is backward imo.
5. Long ago the AI didn't play Japan very well and often still fails...Personally I play Japan for that reason.

Edit: Also be careful what you send them for aid, they have fuel problems for many years.

 

[TheMoe]

Hello...

1. Faction leader can only dismantle if the faction contains it self and puppets, no allies.
2. On the political page just below the national spirit icons is your faction name with a button on the right side that looks like small flags.


3. Japan has a warrior code that makes them reluctant not go at it alone, they could reject you if you don't improve relations and fight the same war.
4. Historic, Japan should join the Axis but for some reason Marco Polo path creates there own faction, and there neutral path forces them to join Axis.
This is backward imo.
5. Long ago the AI didn't play Japan very well and often still fails...Personally I play Japan for that reason.

Edit: Also be careful what you send them for aid, they have fuel problems for many years.

Ahh yes. Thank you! I went back and looked at my last game. It appears that I cannot leave my faction in that game, because I have some collaboration goverments in Poland and France.
Looks like I would need to start over (as I planned) and join their faction before Poland.

I hear what you're saying about fuel issues for Japan, and why the AI doesn't play them very well. They're a complicated nation due to fuel issues and limited manufacturing. So, if I want to help Japan, what should I send them besides old light tanks? Thanks again!

Edit: You can see how terribly they are doing. It's 1939 and they've barely scratched China.


It actually looks like Japan is losing. One of their allies is ready to capitulate and they're barely killing Chinese at a rate of 1 : 2.5. Those are terrible numbers, considering how many people China has to throw at the the war effort. Bunch of farmers with pitchforks, but there are loads of them.

 

[Synicus]

Guns and ammo!
Japan starts with one of the largest infantry weapon shortages in the game.
They often start war with the shortage still on going and can't produce units early enough to fight China properly.
Artillery might be a big help too, giving there units the punch they need against them nasty pitch forks.

 

[TheMoe]

Guns and ammo!
Japan starts with one of the largest infantry weapon shortages in the game.
They often start war with the shortage still on going and can't produce units early enough to fight China properly.
Artillery might be a big help too, giving there units the punch they need against them nasty pitch forks.

Haha! You certainly know, having played the faction yourself. Okay. Now I know what to do to help them out. I'll put a few more factories into gun and artillery production.

 

[Synicus]

For the player it's fairly easy to take on China...
Shanxi first, 22 width units along Hebei (terrible template btw), after Shanxi falls, one colonial army push for the coast and one colonial army invade Shandong having most of them planning vs Manchuria first. Then both colonial armies attempt to pinch off the north and destroy many units. After that, Shandong army makes plans to invade Shanghai and take the capital.
Ignoring communist china threats to use the free war goal as a surprise for the Soviets after China falls and you build up your army (if CC joined Comintern or is not yet in a faction).

 

[TheMoe]

For the player it's fairly easy to take on China...
Shanxi first, 22 width units along Hebei (terrible template btw), after Shanxi falls, one colonial army push for the coast and one colonial army invade Shandong having most of them planning vs Manchuria first. Then both colonial armies attempt to pinch off the north and destroy many units. After that, Shandong army makes plans to invade Shanghai and take the capital.
Ignoring communist china threats to use the free war goal as a surprise for the Soviets after China falls and you build up your army (if CC joined Comintern or is not yet in a faction).

Thank you. I'll have to look at those provinces or states to see how you're doing it. BTW, if using this strategy, when do you attack? What year is your goal? When do you want to be finished conquering all of China? thanks again!

 

[Synicus]

I go right at it, signing the tripartite pact on the way. I think it helps prevent the US from declaring war from this Penny incident if you don't back down, and I never do granting 120 pp. If your lucky, China leadership could change before the war and the event never happens.
The longer ya wait the more units the enemy will have and I want Shanxi to be cake.

Starting with the default army, to help with the equipment and fuel shortage I change several units to other templates.
1 motorized becomes Hohei Shidan and the other Chuton-chi. The 3 armor become Marines. Cavalry becomes Chuton-chi. (spell check does like Japanese, lol)
Result: 40 colonial divisions, 16 main, 4 marine. (15 main 41 colonial is ok) I go with 16 and make 8 new at a time from then on.
When I have enough equipment, I build 8 more colonial first so I end up with 2 full colonial armies.
(they might still be training on the field when the China war starts but that's ok, as long as they are also planning with the rest of the invasion force).

5 focus to start, so Dec 11th 1936 declare war on Shanxi from Mengkukuo, you have to invite them to the war first, when paused at best.
I also give them the north provinces after to maintain a puppet buffer between Mongolia. Line the same army up in the remaining now Jap controlled Shanxi province, maybe build an airport there and put it on top priority. If I won 10 combat exp. I use it to remove 2 infantry battalions from Hohei Shidan.
At Shanxi war start, focus Army expansion law for more exp. When that's done add Artillery to Hohei Shidan and exercise. Once full on organization again,
the Shanxi army should be fully planned and ready.

Declaring War on China in early spring 1937, expected to finish before the end of the year or spring of 1938. The other warlords make the end time fairly variable.

I leave the allies alone for end game war and try to get at least a year head start on the Soviets for semi fair share from peace talks.

 

[TheMoe]

I go right at it, signing the tripartite pact on the way. I think it helps prevent the US from declaring war from this Penny incident if you don't back down, and I never do granting 120 pp. If your lucky, China leadership could change before the war and the event never happens.
The longer ya wait the more units the enemy will have and I want Shanxi to be cake.

Starting with the default army, to help with the equipment and fuel shortage I change several units to other templates.
1 motorized becomes Hohei Shidan and the other Chuton-chi. The 3 armor become Marines. Cavalry becomes Chuton-chi. (spell check does like Japanese, lol)
Result: 40 colonial divisions, 16 main, 4 marine. (15 main 41 colonial is ok) I go with 16 and make 8 new at a time from then on.
When I have enough equipment, I build 8 more colonial first so I end up with 2 full colonial armies.
(they might still be training on the field when the China war starts but that's ok, as long as they are also planning with the rest of the invasion force).

5 focus to start, so Dec 11th 1936 declare war on Shanxi from Mengkukuo, you have to invite them to the war first, when paused at best.
I also give them the north provinces after to maintain a puppet buffer between Mongolia. Line the same army up in the remaining now Jap controlled Shanxi province, maybe build an airport there and put it on top priority. If I won 10 combat exp. I use it to remove 2 infantry battalions from Hohei Shidan.
At Shanxi war start, focus Army expansion law for more exp. When that's done add Artillery to Hohei Shidan and exercise. Once full on organization again,
the Shanxi army should be fully planned and ready.

Declaring War on China in early spring 1937, expected to finish before the end of the year or spring of 1938. The other warlords make the end time fairly variable.

I leave the allies alone for end game war and try to get at least a year head start on the Soviets for semi fair share from peace talks.

Very helpful! Thank you. I'll have to open up the game and find the countries you're describing. Having a timeline sure helps, though! Thanks again!

Edit: I meant to ask you if you bother to develop a spy organization and try to form collaborative governments with any of the Chinese? It seems like it would be quite difficult given the limited number of civilian factories available to the Japanese.

 

[Synicus]

I do not collaborate China or any of the warlords due to probable leadership change that removes the collaboration.
I do however develop a spy organization for ciphers and stealing teach from the Soviets and collaborate the Soviets.
About 5 upgrades per year. I've been doing ciphers less and less having the same problem as collaborating vs. Asia.
It also hurts for an 8+ factory spy ring upgrade the first couple of years in.
Spies are also good for keeping resistance down, some folks use them for anti-partisan only.

I hope I'm not spoiling anything or making other vets cringe at my tactics.

 

[TheMoe]

I do not collaborate China or any of the warlords due to probable leadership change that removes the collaboration.
I do however develop a spy organization for ciphers and stealing teach from the Soviets and collaborate the Soviets.
About 5 upgrades per year. I've been doing ciphers less and less having the same problem as collaborating vs. Asia.
It also hurts for an 8+ factory spy ring upgrade the first couple of years in.
Spies are also good for keeping resistance down, some folks use them for anti-partisan only.

I hope I'm not spoiling anything or making other vets cringe at my tactics.

Haha! I think you're doing just fine. The best thing about this game is that it's basically a blank slate. What matters is if you accomplish the goals you set out for yourself. Everyone has a different playstyle, and I'm sure some vets our there have a very different approach. It's all good.

Man, I've never played Japan, so I've never had to deal with leadership change. Creating a spy network and working on collaboration would have been a huge disappointment on my end if the leadership in China had been removed. It's so hard to think that China was split up like that back in the 30's and 40's, when compared to what we see today. Guess I've been watching too much news!

Thanks for the info on the spy network. It makes sense to work on the ciphers and to collaborate the Soviet Union.

Would you mind sharing your conquest goals? What I'm hearing from you is:

1. Take down China in the parts and pieces.
2. Join the Tripartite agreement with Germany and Italy.
3. Wait for Germany and Italy to attack the Soviet Union, and then do as much damage as possible to them so you have a decent warscore.
4. Take on the allies last. I would assume this part starts with invasions in the Philippines and further south so you get access to rubber and oil, as it was historically.

Does that sound right? It makes sense to me on paper, though I've never played Japan and I don't know where you would get you oil once you join the Tripartite agreement.

 

[Synicus]

China banned HoI, they want to hide how weak they were not so long ago.
No matter the path you take, it's a great boon to have Manchuria obedient. If not, be prepared for them to turn o you when you least expect it.
Toughest part about Japan the first few times is in managing the giant navy, great fun for micro management though.

1. Tripartite first
2. Marco Polo, If china gives in, it's going to take longer and generate more world tension with manual war goals, but it's worth the free cores and a weaker China.
3. Shanxi War: They start popping out new units early 1937 and the Soviets may send volunteers. Lots of mountains too, so it's best to take them out fast and soon.
You can often have Shanxi surrender before any volunteers arrive.
4. China war: If they don't become a faction, you will also want Yunnan and Guangxi clique. Xibei San Ma I like to puppet to extend the north buffer zone.
Alternatively you can give it to your puppet. Obedient Manchuria will eventual annex the other puppet so through out slowly work on annex thru autonomy, ideally after the fall of the USSR. (send them all the outdated equipment you don't want and spam a few hundred convoy for them, maybe build in there territory as well. The Manchurian project is time consuming, you can skip it, but if your going to Annex them in the future, might as well go thru it, but never a top priority.

5. The main point of going all in on China as soon as ya can is to have time to build more armies and get jump start on the Soviets. If you wait for the Axis to start the war, you will not gain most of the territory you capture. The beef of the Union is in the west, Siberia isn't worth a scratch. Do not be afraid to fight them alone, in fact I set up the puppet buffer zone to stick to the warrior code and not invite them to the war. Ideally one should have Mongolia and that East 3rd of the Union before the Axis declares war. It's also slow with little infrastructure, supply woes and long winters. Take winter break if you need to, the enemy will sorta do the same.

6: Allies: Demand French Indo china when it becomes available, ally Siam. prior to this war I'm trading with them for the resources needed. Having half of the Soviet Union fixes that and your more independent. It's all situational from now on... If Dutch East indies is still neutral, attack them first. If France fell and is not an ally, take there Pacific Islands next. Always saving war with a Faction and US for last so you can float about freely. Allies, British Malaya is the UK's bread and butter take their remaining Pacific Islands as well, cutting off Australia from the US. To secure a pole to pole empire and leaving nothing behind, I advise taking Australia before India assuming India is even a threat. Generally it's Japan who gets the US into the war, if that's the case then start with the Philippines, Guam, Attu, Wake, Phoenix, Midway, Johnston and Line Islands all as a sneak attack semi coordinated. From then on it all depends on the upcoming sea battles with the US.

Note: there are ways to invade US mainland as your fist enemy really early. I never tried it as it can be fatal if you lose and not much fun if you win. imo...

Early oil comes from Venezuela or even the US.

Edit: With espionage coordinated strike mission, you can also try to mimic Pearl harbor.

 

[TheMoe]

China banned HoI, they want to hide how weak they were not so long ago.
No matter the path you take, it's a great boon to have Manchuria obedient. If not, be prepared for them to turn o you when you least expect it.
Toughest part about Japan the first few times is in managing the giant navy, great fun for micro management though.

1. Tripartite first
2. Marco Polo, If china gives in, it's going to take longer and generate more world tension with manual war goals, but it's worth the free cores and a weaker China.
3. Shanxi War: They start popping out new units early 1937 and the Soviets may send volunteers. Lots of mountains too, so it's best to take them out fast and soon.
You can often have Shanxi surrender before any volunteers arrive.
4. China war: If they don't become a faction, you will also want Yunnan and Guangxi clique. Xibei San Ma I like to puppet to extend the north buffer zone.
Alternatively you can give it to your puppet. Obedient Manchuria will eventual annex the other puppet so through out slowly work on annex thru autonomy, ideally after the fall of the USSR. (send them all the outdated equipment you don't want and spam a few hundred convoy for them, maybe build in there territory as well. The Manchurian project is time consuming, you can skip it, but if your going to Annex them in the future, might as well go thru it, but never a top priority.

5. The main point of going all in on China as soon as ya can is to have time to build more armies and get jump start on the Soviets. If you wait for the Axis to start the war, you will not gain most of the territory you capture. The beef of the Union is in the west, Siberia isn't worth a scratch. Do not be afraid to fight them alone, in fact I set up the puppet buffer zone to stick to the warrior code and not invite them to the war. Ideally one should have Mongolia and that East 3rd of the Union before the Axis declares war. It's also slow with little infrastructure, supply woes and long winters. Take winter break if you need to, the enemy will sorta do the same.

6: Allies: Demand French Indo china when it becomes available, ally Siam. prior to this war I'm trading with them for the resources needed. Having half of the Soviet Union fixes that and your more independent. It's all situational from now on... If Dutch East indies is still neutral, attack them first. If France fell and is not an ally, take there Pacific Islands next. Always saving war with a Faction and US for last so you can float about freely. Allies, British Malaya is the UK's bread and butter take their remaining Pacific Islands as well, cutting off Australia from the US. To secure a pole to pole empire and leaving nothing behind, I advise taking Australia before India assuming India is even a threat. Generally it's Japan who gets the US into the war, if that's the case then start with the Philippines, Guam, Attu, Wake, Phoenix, Midway, Johnston and Line Islands all as a sneak attack semi coordinated. From then on it all depends on the upcoming sea battles with the US.

Note: there are ways to invade US mainland as your fist enemy really early. I never tried it as it can be fatal if you lose and not much fun if you win. imo...

Early oil comes from Venezuela or even the US.

Thank you for all the time and detail you put into your response. I'll save this for when I have the time to play as Japan. It's something I've been wanting to do for a while, but just haven't had the time. I do love the navy aspects and all the navy micro.

What really made me laugh was the first sentence, and gosh does that ever make sense. The CCP are playing up their power as something that's been around for 5000 years. Yet, just 80 years ago they were a highly fragmented, exceedingly weak group of nation-states. Now now, but certainly back then. If my goal was to pump people up and have them believing that their race was superior or militarily dominant, I would certainly ban this game as well. The truth is dangerous to Totalitarian regimes, wherever they may be.

Thanks again for the tips on the oil as well, and the idea of invading so many islands nearly simultaneously. Yes, I've seen a playthrough where a Tuber took on the US right off the bat, and I agree that doing so takes away the historical feeling and a lot of the late game challenge.

Playing as Germany, it does appear that the US sends their fleets to the Mediterranean until the war with Japan, and then sends most of their fleets to Asia. I haven't played and seen this in Asia, though I've watched some Tubers describe the US navy AI's behavior. I've only seen the US fleets in the Med, killing off the Italian Navy. Maybe something has changed with the latest DLC and patches, and the US uses a real two ocean navy?

I'm going to print this off and get a highlighter and go through your suggestions line by line. J Have a Happy New Year! Thanks again!

Edited for clarity.

 

[Synicus]

Happy new year too you as well, and PDX and all the fans!

Two Ocean Navy Act is a historic US focus. In compliance with Churchill's plead to deal with Germany first.

Edit: FDR was also a navy man and in his national security speech he stressed that the Azores are closer to US shores that Hawaii is on the other side.
Now that I think about it, that focus might be the trigger for his in game speech and why the timing of it is often way off.

 

[TheMoe]

China banned HoI, they want to hide how weak they were not so long ago.
No matter the path you take, it's a great boon to have Manchuria obedient. If not, be prepared for them to turn o you when you least expect it.
Toughest part about Japan the first few times is in managing the giant navy, great fun for micro management though.

1. Tripartite first
2. Marco Polo, If china gives in, it's going to take longer and generate more world tension with manual war goals, but it's worth the free cores and a weaker China.
3. Shanxi War: They start popping out new units early 1937 and the Soviets may send volunteers. Lots of mountains too, so it's best to take them out fast and soon.
You can often have Shanxi surrender before any volunteers arrive.
4. China war: If they don't become a faction, you will also want Yunnan and Guangxi clique. Xibei San Ma I like to puppet to extend the north buffer zone.
Alternatively you can give it to your puppet. Obedient Manchuria will eventual annex the other puppet so through out slowly work on annex thru autonomy, ideally after the fall of the USSR. (send them all the outdated equipment you don't want and spam a few hundred convoy for them, maybe build in there territory as well. The Manchurian project is time consuming, you can skip it, but if your going to Annex them in the future, might as well go thru it, but never a top priority.

5. The main point of going all in on China as soon as ya can is to have time to build more armies and get jump start on the Soviets. If you wait for the Axis to start the war, you will not gain most of the territory you capture. The beef of the Union is in the west, Siberia isn't worth a scratch. Do not be afraid to fight them alone, in fact I set up the puppet buffer zone to stick to the warrior code and not invite them to the war. Ideally one should have Mongolia and that East 3rd of the Union before the Axis declares war. It's also slow with little infrastructure, supply woes and long winters. Take winter break if you need to, the enemy will sorta do the same.

6: Allies: Demand French Indo china when it becomes available, ally Siam. prior to this war I'm trading with them for the resources needed. Having half of the Soviet Union fixes that and your more independent. It's all situational from now on... If Dutch East indies is still neutral, attack them first. If France fell and is not an ally, take there Pacific Islands next. Always saving war with a Faction and US for last so you can float about freely. Allies, British Malaya is the UK's bread and butter take their remaining Pacific Islands as well, cutting off Australia from the US. To secure a pole to pole empire and leaving nothing behind, I advise taking Australia before India assuming India is even a threat. Generally it's Japan who gets the US into the war, if that's the case then start with the Philippines, Guam, Attu, Wake, Phoenix, Midway, Johnston and Line Islands all as a sneak attack semi coordinated. From then on it all depends on the upcoming sea battles with the US.

Note: there are ways to invade US mainland as your fist enemy really early. I never tried it as it can be fatal if you lose and not much fun if you win. imo...

Early oil comes from Venezuela or even the US.

Edit: With espionage coordinated strike mission, you can also try to mimic Pearl harbor.

Oh. I responded so quickly that I missed the edit about Pearl Harbor. That's an idea!

 

[Synicus]

My bad...
I edit too often, must be the weed....

Edit: Did I say that out loud?

 

[TheMoe]

My bad...
I edit too often, must be the weed....

Edit: Did I say that out loud?

That is definitely helpful advice and info.

 

[TheMoe]

So, I started the game, and I went down the focus tree -> Rhineland -> Improve Relations with Japan, and I also improved relations with them several times. Then I guaranteed their independence. It's May 1936 and they haven't declared war on anyone yet. The little flag at the top with the arrows showing Germany's feelings towards them = 10, and the arrow showing their feeling towards me = 100. I have asked for and have received docking rights, and I also Requested License Production. I can't send an attache', because they are not at war, and I cannot ask for a non-agression pact yet, because opinion is exactly +20/-20. I've not had really any experience with the diplomacy system, and it doesn't seem to make any sense to me that their feeling towards me = 100, but I cannot ask for a defensive pact? Please take a look at the screen shot below and let me know if there is any reason to continue trying to improve relations using PP or if I have done all I can for now, and I should wait until they declare war and then go for a non-agression pact?


Also please see screen shot #2, where you can see that I successfully left my faction. I'm planning on joining whatever faction the Japanese create or possible create one with them, though I'm quite far from that option (see screen shot #3). Advice?



Here's one more. I can see from the change in improved relations that I need to keep that number above 40 if I want them to like me 100%, though I fail to understand the relationship between "they like me 100%" and they don't like me enough to want a non-agression pact.

 

[Silverhood]

Just wait until Japan creates their faction, then you should be able to join. If it doesn't let you, declare war on someone Japan is at war with, and they should welcome you with open arms.

 

[TheMoe]

Just wait until Japan creates their faction, then you should be able to join. If it doesn't let you, declare war on someone Japan is at war with, and they should welcome you with open arms.

Thank you very much! It worked perfectly.