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Damorte

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Hello everyone! I was wanting to play the byzantine in iron man mode just for the heck off it, and i was wanting some helpt with strategys to survive the first 10 years or so and maybe even taking some lands back from the Ottomans.

Ive tried the galley strategy where you simply build about 20 galleys and put them in at the strait at Constantinople while the ottomans have their troops on the other side.
Most of the time the Ottomans wont declare war on their eastern enemies though and leaves their entire army outside of constantinople and then proceeds to declares war on me first wich obviously means a need for a restart.
The few times where they do declare war on their eastern enemies and i try to capitalize on the war by starting my own against them and using my galleys to block them off they will simply get access through moldavia and georgia (theyre always allied with crimea) and just walk around the black sea to constantinople and kill me - thus making me have to restart.

Any tips strategys would be helpful!
 

asdfhlkjasd

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One can DOW Albania, blockade them, vassalize them, peace ottomans either with concede defeat or pay money (if pay money be sure to que galleys first), dow Serbia and Bosnia (dow the one that borders the ottomans while still at war with them so an ottoman guarantee is less efective) vassalize them (fight one at a time), meanwhile be improving relations with Hungary to ally them, you can also take money from anyone that you beat in a war to increase galley count (i find that Algeria and Crimea often ally ottomans), ally Hungary when possible, be alert for Greek defections even a single 3 base tax province will be a big help as you may be as much as 2.5x over your naval force limit, do not hire advisors at the start you need all your money for other purposes, choose an opportune time to dow Ottomans even if you can beat them you may not be able to beat them plus their allies, ottoman tech group units are better then your eastern units so hire them if possible, use mercs if you have more money then manpower, snipe island cores when possible without using too many resources (Cyprus Crete Corfu and others), even if you block the strait be aware that ottomans can still (and are likely to) get MA around the black see.
 

Pilot00

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IMHO dont start any agression against Venice and its Vassals, use rebel funding for it. Mercs will be your army till you reestablish the theme system, and you will be having a monstrus inflation and loan debt but dont let those get you down. Unlock offense as your first Idea and try to find a balance between advancing it and your military tech.
On the matter of serbia and Bosnia dont vassalise both. Vassalise one and feed the other. Better to have a large vassal with a good standing army than 2 with mediocre armies. Also when the time to annex them comes it will come in faster. Most will say that allying Hungary is a waste of time. In my runs Hungary has been a loyal ally almost till the end. Also get the protection of another major player. I recomend Castille or Aragon, they might be far but they are powerfull enough and most often than not will join and keep Algiers occupied. Sometimes both will send some doomstacks even and piledrive the Ottos but dont count on it as a fullproof solution.

Declare war against the Ottos only when they have high war excaustion and are fighting already on multiple fronts. If you manage to survive the first was I advice you dont claim any provinces at all. Just force them to release Bulgaria and Vassalise it so you can use it as a buffer and a future vassal to feed.

Generally Byzantium has some strategies that you can follow such as what master1a and I say but remember that luck is the most crucial point in it. And patience too.
 

johnyoga

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Excellent thread. Thank you, Damorte for starting it. And, what you have stated is what I have done, and what has happened to me. Thank you also to Master & Pilot. Good stuff. I wonder if others have their views on this...

Marc
 

beezneez

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Pilot00

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Pilot00

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So, how it goes? Any progress?
 

beezneez

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Wow, beezneez,that is quite the thread!

I'll read through it...

Thanks,

Marc

Haha, I know, its very detailed. But with the Byzantine situation at game start it really helps, and is the best start guide I have seen for them.

Edit: I didn't write it, credit goes to Wolfen on the steam forum.
 

aurelplouf

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My starting game was similar to the suggestion above:

Day 1: DOW Albana and send the barque to get 25% war score from blocades. With the other diplomat, send warning against the Ottomans. Have +5 Dip Rep advisor, otherwise restart (you need it for fast marriages/alliances). Start mission to accumulate money or repair relations with Athens. Build a Cavalry and Infantry, make your king a general and start transporting your units to Albania. Afterwich, improve relations with Poland, guarantee and if possible make rival their rivals. The other diplomat can be used to improve relations with Lithuania/Austria/Greece.

Rivals early game are usually:
Poland: Teutonic order
Lithuania: Russia/Muscovy and Ottomans!
Austria: Burgundy
Muscovy: Novgorod

After you landed your 8 troops in albania, declare war against Serbia and send them directly to the Serbia capital to crush their low morale army. When you DOW against Serbia you should have 95-100 Admin points to reduce by 1 the stability cost. After your troops are in Serbian territory, you can offer peace with Albania: Vassalize + cash (usually about 33 ducats if your war score is at 23%). Then the next day pay cash the Ottomans for peace. They will warn you, but its of no consequence since you already declared war with Serbia ;).

After you crushed the Serbian army, carpet siege all provinces even if you can't siege them. During that time try to get a marriage with poland and continue improve relations. Don't ally/marry anyone else.

After taking 3 provinces of Serbia (~83% war score), take Zeta as your own province (so you can fabricate claims on Bosnia), vassalize Serbia and ask for cash. At peace, make an alliance with poland and if you worked the relations high enough, press claim throne during their interregrum. usually by december 1447, a new ruler will be chosen in Poland and if you are lucky, they will have the same dynasty as yours and no PU with Lithuania ;). Afterwhich you can start marry/ally Lithuania and another big country like Austria if you fear Venice.

After your claim is done, DOW Bosnia, and if they are allied with Wallachia, vassalize both of them. In the meantime, their is a good chance that Cyprus must of been conquered by the mamluks and rebels will spawn (16 stack) and flip to you. Other islands might flip too without the need to support rebels.

You need to have strong allies before 1450 so the Ottomans won't dare to attack you, and you will most likely have conflicts against Venice than others. Start integrating your vassals Athens and Albania when you can so you can start earning more diplo points.

After that, the next wars can be Trebizond (you have core there), Georgia if they are eaten by other can be a great vassal for feeding :x, Tunisia if they have less allies than at game start, I also released croatia early on to grab some land from a weak hungary, and if Naples are not allied to Aragon or under PU, then start your Italian conquest as early as possible.

Never attack a HRE country and you should be fine. Never refuse a call to arms so your trust remains high and Austria or Russia won't break their alliance. If Austria is weak and France is strong, go with France. I tried an alliance with a strong Castile and this is what happened:
Castile does the reconquesta and drags the ottomans in the war. The ottomans destroy me, the spanish troops are not even in North Africa and just sit there in the Iberian peninsula. Meanwhile the ottomans siege all my land, then "Game over". So I don't recommend Castile as an ally until much later.

After you beaten down the European part of the Ottomans, don't continue, try to make other Muslim countries weaker such as the Mamluks. When the Muslims in general are in shambles, then you try to go for the rest of Anatolia, Jerusalem, Alexandria and Tunisia.

I tried this start about 20 times, they usually work pretty well but I made blunders later on that forced me to restart (like the Castile example) :p.

Another Tip: don't try to attack the Ottomans too early. You can have a great start and quickly ruin your game. Make sure you are ahead of their military tech, because the Ottoman tech is very strong the first 50-100 years.

Also you need to continuously dominate the seas, even if they go around the black sea, this will give you and your allies to build a powerful stack. The first 50 years, the Ottomans will usually have 12-15 galleys and 4-8 barques, so you will need more galleys. Their maintenance doesn't cost much and I find it more important to go over the naval force limits than the land force limits.

Make sure you go to war with Allies that are ready to support you. I found Lithuania very effective (much more than poland), meanwhile Austria can be a good ally unless its at war with Burgundy or France (The Burgundy conquest of Liege can destroy Austria and force them to release Tyrol). 50 years forward, if Russia is strong enough, they will become your best ally because they are by far the strongest AI nation in the game after a while, and the best part, they are Orthodox. Of course this will make Lithuania angry, but if they are in a PU with Poland, the latter will eventually break off the alliance because of their interest in Constantinople after integrating Modalvia.

Venice is always a splinter in your plans, they love to DOW on you the moment you are a bit weak or if you are at war. Having Austria as an Ally will help to crush them quickly, meanwhile your eastern allies will just stupidly stack in your lands and suffer attrition. Honestly the allies are so broken when playing the Byzantium.... Early game, I find it hard to find a good ally. Hungary in all of my games have been useless. I prefer to kill Venice before I kill the Ottomans, because they are so annoying and a huge naval fleet!

The Ottomans can always be a threat and I have seen them in an Alliance or even leading a PU with Qara Qonlyu (however you write it...) and that can be an extremely powerful alliance.

Hope that the Mamluks become hostile against the Ottomans, and when the Ottomans is under 15-20k armies and almost no manpower, then you can attack (make sure their allies are weak too). If the Ottomans suffer war exhaustion from other wars, they are most likely to settle peace quickly with you = More lands gained, less deaths ;).
 
Last edited:

ashalpha

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I didn't know about the other threads before I started my own effort but ended up with pretty much the same strategies after about a dozen quick game overs:

1. DOW Albania and send your fleet (with all of the army you can fit with your ruler as general) to get 25% war score from blockade while building a cavalry and infantry in your southern provinces. With the other diplomat, send warning against the Ottomans. When you get the diplomats back ally with Serbia (if you need to raise relations first but most of the time they will quickly agree). Albania will immediately surrender as a vassal and this puts you at war with Ottomans. Serbia will decline your war and gives you a casus belli against them. Spend all the money you get from the Albanians on more galleys. Ask the Ottomans for peace with concede defeat. They should accept once you don't have any money. Once you can do so warn the Ottomans again (though it does not really matter if you are quick enough with your conquests). Disembark your army in Albania. Board the rest of your army including the ones you just made and put them together in Albania.

2. Ally with Bosnia or Wallachia. In a perfect world they are already allied together but it doesn't matter if not. Declare war on Serbia without asking your ally for help (even if the Ottomans warn you first they won't attack when you still have a treaty). DONT destroy their army. Just siege them until they agree to be your vassals. They won't attack you if you keep your army together. Ask your ally into the war before you declare peace. They should refuse because of the time penalties. This gives you a casus belli against them. Declare peace with Serbia so they are your vassals. That army that you let them keep by not destroying it? That is now really yours, they will attach it to your force when you attack your next victim (Bosnia or Wallachia) if they are allied you don't have to have a -2 stab hit when you declare on the other. If not eat the stab hit you need them vassalized ASAP. If you can DONT destroy their armies (they become yours when they agree to vassalization).

3. You should have all of them vassalized by the time the treaty is over with the Ottomans that is why I say the warning is sometimes redundant (it is extremely useful though for timing cause otherwise if they warn you first you will have to wait until they are at war to attack after the treaty is over). By this time if you are lucky one of the islands have rebelled for you so you have another province. Track the trade fleet of Venice with your large fleet (every time your limits go up you should be matching it or exceeding). Have an admiral for your galley fleet. Once you are sure of your superiority at sea attack the Knights. This guarantees Venice will go to war with you. If you time it right you destroy their trade fleet. Chase it back to their main fleet and blockade them (usually Venice). If you have enough galleys that is really the end of Venice's reign in the islands. Get enough warscore to get Naxos, Rhodes, and Crete whichever one hasn't rebelled already. Hopefully Cyprus rebelled, if not track the Mameluk forces. If you have superiority at sea take them. If not leave it alone, they usually rebel back to you eventually. If you get a chance conquer the eastern provinces (Trebizond maybe even Georgia) but they are not really essential.

4. Build up, try to ally with someone large (Poland, Lithuania if they break free, Hungary, and/or Austria) preferably two. By this time you are large enough with enough connections that Ottomans will consider other targets first not you. I usually wait until my military level units are at least comparable (the starting Eastern level units suck bad) and then wait for an opportunity to attack when they are busy.

5. Declare war on the Ottomans. Block the straits this is essential so you need to have naval superiority once you have their fleet penned blockade their ports. Go to whichever side their main army is not. Poland and/or Lithuania should keep the northern flank secure but if they manage to go around go to the other side and start sieging there. They will walk all the way around again. Keep doing this until you get enough warscore to have them release Bulgaria or at least 3 provinces.

6. If you win that war, keep pushing them until they you drive them from Anatolia. Don't give them time to recover as their national ideas are scary good, it should be about 4 to 5 wars. In the peace times try to annex your vassals (you will suck at diplo points for a long time with so many vassals). It requires some patience and strategical thinking but after the initial stages it is definitely doable.

In my own walkthrough I was unlucky and fell victim to a PU to Austria which quickly became a massive HRE but it didn't even really matter. Built up, Westernized, fought my way free and continued the reconquest.