Need HELP with Conclave Education best practices

[eastcoastceojam]

I recently bought Conclave. I've experimented with dozens of kids over multiple games, both with my dynasty as well as courtier's children. I still get many mediocre results (Level 1-2 Education and Frail, Dull, or Slothful kids). Could be bad luck, but more likely just my misunderstanding of Conclave Education mechanics.

FYI- This Conclave Education tree is great: https://ck2.paradoxwikis.com/File:Conclave_education.jpg

• First, my understanding of the basics:
  • Infant/Toddler - age 0 - 5. Select a childhood focus anytime, but nothing happens until age 6.
  • Childhood Focus - age 6 - 11. Child acquires traits from selected focus. Childhood focus makes some traits more likely, but any childhood trait is possible.
  • Education Focus - age 12 - 16. Child selects a Education focus. Chances of Level 2+ Education are increased if Education focus is compatible (or at least not hindered by) Childhood traits.

• What is an Ideal Court Tutor?
  • Current approach- 10+ learning, shares my education/culture, and has multiple teacher traits (Kind, Charitable, Diligent, Just, Patient, or Temperate), and not Dull, Drunkard, Possessed, Lunatic, Slothful, or Envious.
  • Question - Does the 10+ Learning help? Or is it just their traits (and religion/culture for Heritage Focus) that matter?
  • Also, what if the Tutor has traits like Craven, Frail, or Gluttonous? Will this increase the chance of his tutored children getting these traits?

• Childhood Heritage Focus
  • I try to ensure my Court Tutor shares my religion/culture. If a child appears in my court with a different religion or culture, I always select Heritage Focus.
  • The Wiki implies that culture/religion will only attempt to be changed between ages 6 - 11.
  • Question - if I switch a child away from the Court Tutor after age 12+, is there a chance the child might adopt the culture or religion of their new Guardian?
  • Also, does the Heritage focus sometimes fail to convert a child's culture/religion? I feel like if I select the Heritage focus after they turn 6 (because I forgot to do so earlier), it doesn't always convert.

• Educator Intervention - HELP!

• The URL above shows the Educator traits that allow intervention.
• Question - if the Indolent childhood trait emerges before age 12, does it help to immediately transfer them to a Guardian with Gregarious (allowing the guardian to intervene)? Or are the intervention odds the same if I wait until age 12+, then find the best Guardian to cumulatively manage all childhood traits?
• My biggest challenge has been getting kids with the Rowdy trait to not become Dull.
• Question- What educator would be best for Rowdy to not become Dull- someone with Brave (the intervention trait), or someone with Brawny or Honest (possible non-Dull outcomes for Rowdy), or would the educator need both Brave AND Brawny (or Brave AND Honest) to greatly reduce the chance of becoming Dull?

Sorry for writing a book- just wanted to be as clear as possible as to what I know (or think I know), and what I am still struggling with. Thanks in advance for any comments or advice!

 

[Serenity84]

Duty and Thrift are pretty safe picks by the way. Both lead to good outcomes even without intervention. And some of the bad ones like greedy or paranoid aren't really truly bad. And stewardship itself is very useful in larger realms.

 

[Atalvyr]

Martial is definately the hardest to educate for, as Struggle provides a fair few chances of bad traits. As mentioned Thrift is pretty good allround, but can give Stressed.

 

[eastcoastceojam]

Duty and Thrift are pretty safe picks by the way. Both lead to good outcomes even without intervention. And some of the bad ones like greedy or paranoid aren't really truly bad.

^ 100% agree. I usually stick to Duty and Thrift for my own dynasty, and for most vassals too. I sometimes throw in a Faith and Struggle focus for diversity. But any focus can still pick up Rowdy or Indolent on occasion, and it seems to go badly for me far more than not.

Has anyone ever seen probabilities of each Adult trait from the corresponding Childhood traits? Like Rowdy trait has 14% chance of developing into Brawny, %30 chance of Honest, and 56% chance of Dull? I don't believe that the Adult traits are all equally probable, or we would see a lot more Brawny Lunatic 16 year-olds.

 

[Ganymedes5]

lol Brawny lunatics. I need to try that with a caste clan of warriors and focus on ruling.

I almost always pick struggle for my heir unless he's a weiner, in which case I try for stewardship.

 

[Dlin369]

Usually Duty for my heir (diligent is a really neat trait for getting good education, and Just is useful to get should your heir become diligent another way)

Humility for my second sons and vassals - I end up landing the younger brothers with kingdoms and powerful duchies so having 2 ways to give them content is useful. It’a also likely to give an advantage in diplo education, which is good if for some reason the first kid dies.

For other courtier children, I usually do it randomly (except for culture) usually struggle to make soldiers or thrift

 

[Tavald]

FYI- This Conclave Education tree is great: https://ck2.paradoxwikis.com/File:Conclave_education.jpg

• First, my understanding of the basics:
  • Infant/Toddler - age 0 - 5. Select a childhood focus anytime, but nothing happens until age 6.
  • Childhood Focus - age 6 - 11. Child acquires traits from selected focus. Childhood focus makes some traits more likely, but any childhood trait is possible.
  • Education Focus - age 12 - 16. Child selects a Education focus. Chances of Level 2+ Education are increased if Education focus is compatible (or at least not hindered by) Childhood traits.

• What is an Ideal Court Tutor?
  • Current approach- 10+ learning, shares my education/culture, and has multiple teacher traits (Kind, Charitable, Diligent, Just, Patient, or Temperate), and not Dull, Drunkard, Possessed, Lunatic, Slothful, or Envious.
  • Question - Does the 10+ Learning help? Or is it just their traits (and religion/culture for Heritage Focus) that matter?
  • Also, what if the Tutor has traits like Craven, Frail, or Gluttonous? Will this increase the chance of his tutored children getting these traits?

• Childhood Heritage Focus
  • I try to ensure my Court Tutor shares my religion/culture. If a child appears in my court with a different religion or culture, I always select Heritage Focus.
  • The Wiki implies that culture/religion will only attempt to be changed between ages 6 - 11.
  • Question - if I switch a child away from the Court Tutor after age 12+, is there a chance the child might adopt the culture or religion of their new Guardian?
  • Also, does the Heritage focus sometimes fail to convert a child's culture/religion? I feel like if I select the Heritage focus after they turn 6 (because I forgot to do so earlier), it doesn't always convert.

• Educator Intervention - HELP!

• The URL above shows the Educator traits that allow intervention.
• Question - if the Indolent childhood trait emerges before age 12, does it help to immediately transfer them to a Guardian with Gregarious (allowing the guardian to intervene)? Or are the intervention odds the same if I wait until age 12+, then find the best Guardian to cumulatively manage all childhood traits?
• My biggest challenge has been getting kids with the Rowdy trait to not become Dull.
• Question- What educator would be best for Rowdy to not become Dull- someone with Brave (the intervention trait), or someone with Brawny or Honest (possible non-Dull outcomes for Rowdy), or would the educator need both Brave AND Brawny (or Brave AND Honest) to greatly reduce the chance of becoming Dull?

Sorry for writing a book- just wanted to be as clear as possible as to what I know (or think I know), and what I am still struggling with. Thanks in advance for any comments or advice!

Basics all good.
Sometimes I get children with childhood traits before 6, with or without education. Never bothered to see why, just happens.

The ideal court tutor is what you want the next generation of children to be.
Or just a way to get vassal opinion up, if you are ok with micromanaging the education of the children that matters.
He will act like a tutor for every child in the court, but not for this in jail; that means he will flip culture/religion of the kids.

If you want details about culture/religion changing on children go to item 4 of:
https://ck2.paradoxwikis.com/Culture
The short answer is that 5 years should be sufficient for culture/religion flipping.
Heritage focus can fail, you just got unlucky with the random number generator.

Rowdy become dull automatically, the guardian have a chance to trade the dull for something else that he is, he will trade it for brave if he is brave.
There is a chance he will trade it for random other traits, like proud if the tutor/guardian is proud.

 

[faiuwle]

What is an Ideal Court Tutor?

• • Current approach- 10+ learning, shares my education/culture, and has multiple teacher traits (Kind, Charitable, Diligent, Just, Patient, or Temperate), and not Dull, Drunkard, Possessed, Lunatic, Slothful, or Envious.
  • Question - Does the 10+ Learning help? Or is it just their traits (and religion/culture for Heritage Focus) that matter?
  • Also, what if the Tutor has traits like Craven, Frail, or Gluttonous? Will this increase the chance of his tutored children getting these traits?

The only thing that matters for educators is culture and intervention traits. Pick a particular educator for every child you care about who has the right culture and intervention traits, the court tutor is only to reduce micromanagement of educating children you don't care about. If you have the correct intervention traits, you are the best educator possible. Stats don't matter at all until age 14.5 - in Conclave a child's stats are based only on their parents' stats.

• [*]Question - if the Indolent childhood trait emerges before age 12, does it help to immediately transfer them to a Guardian with Gregarious (allowing the guardian to intervene)? Or are the intervention odds the same if I wait until age 12+, then find the best Guardian to cumulatively manage all childhood traits?

Childhood traits only turn into adult traits between the ages of 12 and 16. Educator is not required before age 12.

• [*]Question- What educator would be best for Rowdy to not become Dull- someone with Brave (the intervention trait), or someone with Brawny or Honest (possible non-Dull outcomes for Rowdy), or would the educator need both Brave AND Brawny (or Brave AND Honest) to greatly reduce the chance of becoming Dull?

If the educator has brave, it means they have a chance of making the child brave instead of dull, or brawny, or whatever the trait was going to evolve into naturally. You will have the same choice if you have brave and are the educator, which is why you are always the best educator, because you can make the right decision 100% of the time. For AI educators, it also helps if they have diligent, which increases the chance of them making the right decision for all intervention traits. Diligent is also an intervention trait for some childhood trait that I forget, so it's great for educators to have, and if your child winds up with diligent they get an improved chance to get a better education. You also want to check that they don't have intervention traits that could possible give your child a worse trait than they would get naturally. I usually look at the child's childhood traits, make a list of what traits I want and do not want in the educator, and use the character finder to search by traits and filter by culture to find the best educator.

Also of relevance: if the educator has 12+ in one or more stats when the child is age 14.5. Then they can optionally choose to give the child an extra trait for some personal cost. For a child like your heir, it's very beneficial for them to have an educator with 2 12+ stats when they are 14. For other children it might not matter so much. You'll get this decision too, if you are the educator. Also, you generally want to avoid educators with 12+ learning, because they can give your child chaste at age 14.5.

 

[eastcoastceojam]

If the educator has brave, it means they have a chance of making the child brave instead of dull, or brawny, or whatever the trait was going to evolve into naturally. You will have the same choice if you have brave and are the educator, which is why you are always the best educator, because you can make the right decision 100% of the time. For AI educators, it also helps if they have diligent, which increases the chance of them making the right decision for all intervention traits. Diligent is also an intervention trait for some childhood trait that I forget, so it's great for educators to have, and if your child winds up with diligent they get an improved chance to get a better education.

Thanks for the advice. In one current game, my ruler is the pious leader of the Benedictine Order and has every single virtue, plus Diligent, Brave, and Just. I made him the guardian of a couple different kids, and now I see the pop-up decisions you mentioned: You get a chance to make the kid Brave, Diligent, or Just or choose what the trait was going to develop into naturally.

Now for the million dollar question- what is the best way for as many children as possible to develop the Diligent trait?? Is it:

1. Hope they get the Conscientious trait, and then assign them a Just educator (Just is the intervention trait for Conscientious, and Diligent is one of the outcomes)?
2. Hope they get the Fussy trait, and assign them a Diligent educator (Diligent is the intervention trait for Fussy)?
3. Or, just find a virtuous and Diligent Court Tutor, and let him teach all the kids (regardless of their traits)?
4. Something else?
5. Or just pray to RNG Jesus?

Thanks again for all the responses to this thread.

 

[Stepina]

Wow I've had conclave since out came out I had no clue about intervention traits, probably won't use them that much when now that I do, already adding several new layers you my Game strategy with things ive learned since starting the forums

 

[faiuwle]

Probably the best way is to find a diligent court tutor with two stats 12+ - one of the outcomes for that at age 14.5 is diligent.

If you assign a kid with conscientious an educator with just it will prevent diligent from showing up because they will probably get just instead.

 

[DPS]

Childhood Heritage Focus

• • I try to ensure my Court Tutor shares my religion/culture. If a child appears in my court with a different religion or culture, I always select Heritage Focus.

• • That's normally what I do as well, but if you have a courtier who would otherwise be a great choice for Court Tutor except that he or she is the wrong religion or culture, you can assign someone else as a particular child's guardian until they hit age 12. Let the assigned guardian flip the faith/culture and then at age 12 turn the child back over to the Court Tutor.

• • The Wiki implies that culture/religion will only attempt to be changed between ages 6 - 11.

• • That is correct as best as I can tell.
• • 
    

  • Question - if I switch a child away from the Court Tutor after age 12+, is there a chance the child might adopt the culture or religion of their new Guardian?

• • No.
• • 
    

  • Also, does the Heritage focus sometimes fail to convert a child's culture/religion? I feel like if I select the Heritage focus after they turn 6 (because I forgot to do so earlier), it doesn't always convert.

• In my experience, it always converts. The only exceptions I've seen have been with children with the Heritage focus who have arrived in my court just a few months before turning 12. Since the event that flips them does fire randomly, though, it stands to reason that there is a chance it doesn't fire before the child hits age 12; but as I said, I've never seen it not fire except as noted.

 

[WJS]

I still end up assigning a guardian for my child at age 12 that has the same top-tier skill I'm trying to get the child to have. I'll send the child abroad if I have to, just to get the right guardian skill set.

 

[faiuwle]

Guardians have no effects on their wards skills anymore. Only traits.

 

[eastcoastceojam]

Started as a 769 Tribal Irish Catholic- want to end as a Norse Orthodox Doge of Ireland. Norse culture should allow raids while Merchant Republic. And Orthodox allows reliable taxes from bishops, an Autocephalous Patriach of Ireland who grants divorce/excommunication, and when I sack a Catholic temple for gold, the Pope takes the Moral Authority hit, instead of my own religion.

But I can't rush it. I needed to stay Irish to leverage Tanistry; and Irish Catholic to vassalize holdout counties. And I want to stay Tribal until holdings are maxed with prestige, 1000s of gold has been saved from raiding, and many male dynastic relatives have been sired due to concubines. But now, after forming the Kingdom of Ireland, I need to go Orthodox.

First, I selected Orthodox spouses and concubines for unmarried family, and dismissed Zealous Catholics from the realm. Second, I found an excellent Orthodox Court Tutor, to turn all the kids, one-by-one, to the new faith.

Here is the reason for the post on this thread. There are no Orthodox Irish in the world (yet). I had to a hire Greek Court Tutor, but I am afraid he will make my heirs Greek (which would lose Tanistry), while teaching them about their new Orthodox faith.

For the Faith Focus- the tooltip says "focus on Orthodox faith and religious learning", and the CK2 wiki says "child may adopt educator's religion."
For the Heritage Focus- the tooltip says "focus on assimilating Greek culture and the Orthodox faith", and the wiki says "child may adopt culture and/or religion."

Obviously, I'll stay away from the Heritage Focus. If I want the kids to stay Irish, but convert to Orthodox, am I safe with the Faith Focus? Or is their always a chance that a Diligent Court Tutor (which is what mine is) will sway his wards to his culture and religion regardless of their focus?

I have already experimented with my Greek Orthodox tutor for a few years. So far he created one Irish Orthodox adolescent, and six Greek Orthodox adolescents (I think most were foreigners who already had the Heritage Focus).

I don't want to waste a whole generation of kids before I find out if I am doing it wrong. If someone has advice on the safest way to change religion education while leaving culture education unchanged, please share.

 

[faiuwle]

I don't think he should convert their culture unless they have heritage focus.

 

[Stepina]

They will not convert culture unless under heritage, and will not convert religion unless one of the 2

 

[Rubidium]

Yep, Faith should work out fine. That's exactly what it's there for: changing religion without changing culture.