Need fast division as Germany

[GermanDave]

I'll cut straight to the chase:

I usually use:
90 Infantry divisions (10 Inf, 6 Art, 1 Heavy TD)
30 Medium Tank Divisions (8 mArm, 4 mSPG, 6 mot)

And those remove Borscht and Baguette quite reliably.
However, my army lacks speed. What would be a reliable fast division that can hold its own?

 

[Secret Master]

Have you been appointing Guderian as theorist? He buffs the speed of armor before any other factors are taken into account.

You may also wish to invest in better engines instead of armor or guns.

But I'm curious as to how fast you think you need to be. Maybe LARM is the right answer for you, but I would need more parameters before rendering a judgment.

 

[GermanDave]

Have you been appointing Guderian as theorist? He buffs the speed of armor before any other factors are taken into account.

You may also wish to invest in better engines instead of armor or guns.

But I'm curious as to how fast you think you need to be. Maybe LARM is the right answer for you, but I would need more parameters before rendering a judgment.

My problem is that 10 km/h is too slow. Modified mArm kicks in too late for my taste.
In the last game I used a mixed Mot + RArt division.

It would move fast as hell (12km/h in 41) but was too rubbish at attack and defense. My 40 width InfArt abuse just beats the Mot division to the punch when it comes to combat.

 

[Secret Master]

My problem is that 10 km/h is too slow.

Then it's time to go with LARM.

A few things to keep in mind, though.

1) MOT kind of sucks on bad terrain. If you want to move faster through bad terrain, you need MECH, even though it's top speed is slower than MOT at tier 1.

2) All tanks tend to slow down in certain kinds of weather and terrain. 12 kph can turn into 3 kph if you aren't careful. It's a pain to blitz through the Pripet Marshes.

3) You can always divide your breakthrough forces and exploitation forces. Nothing stops you from just using MOT with L-SPART as the fast exploitation forces while you use ARM to make the breakthrough. Motorized rockets can also fulfill this role with MOT as well.

When building LARM, keep in mind that it is far easier to pierce, but costs far less tungsten and IC to build.

 

[Kazansky22]

I just use medium tank divisions to breakthrough enemy defenses and widen the gap a bit and use motorized or light tanks to to encirclements. Making sure you have overwhelming air superiority helps with the movement speeds too.

 

[GermanDave]

Thanks for your help guys.

What ratio of Mot, LArm, LArt/RArt would be the best. So far replicating the softpower exploit with Mot-RArt divisions has not worked in my favor.

 

[Gort11]

For light tank divisions I tend to use 3 light tanks, 2 light self-propelled guns, and 4 motorised. Since speed is the goal here you'll also want engineers and recon. Add in maintenance to keep the attrition down.

 

[Commissar Yossarian]

Mechanized 1 is amazing for medium armour that is expected to fight in forests and worse terrain.

That's normally where I stash it if building some mech for late game shits and giggles.

If you ever get there late mech is good with light armour.

Otherwise for exploit divisions light armour with trucks. If you want them to attack then use tanks with armour upgrades to bring their speed down to truck levels. If you want them to exploit then ignore the tanks and just use light TD for piercing and defense since you won't need Breakthrough. I prefer SPA over M.RA for the mild armour bump.

I like to think of them as wedge units rather than fast breakthrough units. Against a blitzkrieg the proper defense is to attack the corners of the thrust. To prevent this you need wedges with long staying power to hold these corners while you fill the salient with infantry.

A proper encirclement will occur by flowering out of your Breakthrough. For HOI you want to attack approximately 3 wide to prevent pinning attacks from grinding your middle thrust to death. It also gives you a safe province to retreat into as you cycle infantry into the defensive line and your motorized out. Once established with a deep salient to overcome your enemies defensive depth it's time to pocket the enemy. Your armour core should attack out of the three province front expanding it to 5 or 6 provinces. Pick a line with an attack axis of plains or hills terrain ending on a defensive feature, like a river. Now in open country your defensive mot infantry should roll unopposed in an outside arc to your armour divs inside arc. As long as you can get in front of your enemy quickly enough they will become engaged with a dug in defensive monster while your armour attacks them in the flank.

Or if you're playing the AI just click attack and go make a sandwich while your infantry wave washes over Russia in 6 months...

PS: to get your fresh mot.inf to defend for your tanks you need to stagger the attack, so your armour commits filling the front line, with infantry if you have extra width. Then send in the mot.inf so they sit in reserves. Once you win the mot.inf will get their first to defend. If you are expecting an immediate counter attack hold your armour to regain org, and let your infantry advance to fill the defensive line. Then send your tanks forward. That way after the defensive battle is won your tanks will be at good/full org to smash the low org defenders.

 

[Orlunu]

Depends on what you need, but L-TD - MOT - L-SPG is the best cavalry-style unit for exploiting breakthroughs. It's very good defensively for filling in gaps in a rapidly advancing front, and it's also very good for running down fleeing enemies. It's main weakness is on the breakthrough, but it shouldn't be your linebreaker unit anyway. AA is nice.

 

[amalric de g.]

Speed is overrated, nothing is more satisfying then to watch how your heavy Armour Divisions mows the enemy down. Regardless, if they hide behind the Maginot or are sitting on a Mountain top.

 

[grandad1982]

So what do folks think about pure larm with all the speed boosts (no mot)? Obviously org and hp are non existent but they can shift really fast as long as they aren't asked to fight.

I can't say I've ever used divisions of that type but can anyone see a practical use for them?

 

[amalric de g.]

So what do folks think about pure larm with all the speed boosts (no mot)? Obviously org and hp are non existent but they can shift really fast as long as they aren't asked to fight.

I can't say I've ever used divisions of that type but can anyone see a practical use for them?

For VP runs and pocket operations deep behind the enemy lines, if they encounter resistance it´s over. I personally never use pure light tank Divisions.

 

[Meglok]

Thanks for your help guys.

What ratio of Mot, LArm, LArt/RArt would be the best. So far replicating the softpower exploit with Mot-RArt divisions has not worked in my favor.

What I use 20 width is 5 LARM with a couple of engine upgrades, 1 L-SpArt, 4 MOT (yes, it is 21w but it wont be stacking much, it is exploiting and overrunning). Support is Eng, Recon, AT (for piercing if it runs into armor), Art, and Maint or RArt if I have it.
Guderian is a must plus appropriate Mobile Doctrines.
This division will overrun retreating leg infantry and exploit nicely. Remember you must have air superiority or don't bother. It can fight infantry but it doesn't take much to pierce it and Medium Armor will chew it up. But in open terrain, desert, and hills it will thrive.

 

[bERt0r]

Speed is overrated, nothing is more satisfying then to watch how your heavy Armour Divisions mows the enemy down. Regardless, if they hide behind the Maginot or are sitting on a Mountain top.

Nothing is more exciting when your 2 Light Tank armies encircle your enemy's heavy tank army. Or just play cat and mouse with them, encircle a pocket here, drive all the way to the other end of the front, encircle a pocket there and repeat.

 

[amalric de g.]

Nothing is more exciting when your 2 Light Tank armies encircle your enemy's heavy tank army. Or just play cat and mouse with them, encircle a pocket here, drive all the way to the other end of the front, encircle a pocket there and repeat.

That only works, against a enemy who doesn´t have AT in their Infantry-Divisions and don´t have air superiority, your Light-Tank Divisions wouldn´t breakthrough or they would run straight into my reserves and i had a nice Kessel.

And my mot. Inf.-Divisions are able to handle your Light-Tank Divisions with enough LTDs.

 

[bERt0r]

That only works, against a enemy who doesn´t have AT in their Infantry-Divisions and don´t have air superiority, your Light-Tank Divisions wouldn´t breakthrough or they would run straight into my reserves and i had a nice Kessel.

And my mot. Inf.-Divisions are able to handle your Light-Tank Divisions with enough LTDs.

Someone's delusional but I like it

 

[amalric de g.]

Someone's delusional but I like it

Me? Maybe sometimes.

My first post was only a joke. Speed is the key in mobile warfare.

I use my heavy tanks for the breakthrough, my mot.Inf and medium Tanks pour through the hole and encircle the enemy. My Inf and heavy Tanks finish the Kessel and rince and repeat.

 

[bERt0r]

I know, just bantering a bit. I just had to post my experience of having faced a Soviet with monster heavy tank divisions while I spent my research bonus to get Light tank 3 in 37 or something. I managed to capitulate Poland before they joined the allies and could start Barbarossa in 38. He only had a few of his heavy tank divisions but they were monsters. Encircled them and they broke out easily. It ended in a cat and mouse where I was constantly gaining ground murdering his infantry while his tanks tried to strat redeploy after my light tanks. In the end he pulld all his tanks back to Moscow where he held out for months - encircled. It was certainly not the best strategy but it was one hell of a fun game.

 

[Secret Master]

In the end he pulld all his tanks back to Moscow where he held out for months - encircled.

Hitler must have been pissed. Berlin didn't hold out that long.

 

[bERt0r]

The combination of forts + multiple urban provinces next to each other, a lot of VP to give some supply and unpierceable heavy tank divisions made it quite a task. Moscow fell just as France declared war against me