Need expert help.

[danhammer]

Ok guys. The situation.
It is June 1940, I am playing the Soviets. I declared war on Greece. I am not at war with anyone else yet.
I already own Turkey and Bulgaria.
And I would like it to stay at peace with the Axis and Allies for a while. The truce with the Axis is good till June 1943.
They can not declare war on me until then.
So what happened Greece allied with the allies about 10 days after I declared war on Greece.
I can still attack and gain control of Greece without causing a war with the allies, unless Ally troops land in Greece.
USA is an Ally member now. And USA and Japan just went to war as well. My problem is Italy just declared war on Greece and captured two victory points already and Italy is an Axis member. The Axis can not declare war on the Soviets for 3 more years yet. But the Axis and the allies are at war. I can as the Soviets grab the other two victory point locations in Greece before Italy can. Assuming the allies do not land troops in Greece to help them out. Then it could get interesting.
I can not attack Italian units in Greece or ally units only Greek units. If I attack anyone else war breaks out all over.

So what happens in game terms If Greece gets split between the Soviets and Italy? I never had this sort of thing happen before. I have my war goals set to puppet Greece and install communism.

Ideas please? Options I can let Italy take Greece but then I have to wait till I am ready to take on all of the Axis to take Greece.

Or I could take what I can now and then do what with it? Make peace and just land grab some of it? Or just sit on what I take until an opportunity presents itself to take more. What happens if the allies get mixed up in this? Will I somehow trigger a war with the allies as Greece is an ally member. I know that if I declare war on an ally member nation then I will be at war with the allies. But I declared war before they where an ally member so I am only at war with Greece right now not the allies. This is mind bending me just a bit.

Oh by the way just for extra grins Yugoslavia also joined the Axis and because the Axis and Allies are at war, Greece attacked and gained southern Yugoslavia about 7 provinces including the southern most city. And most of the Greek army is in Yugoslavia right now. That let the Italians by down the west coast of Greece to grab the two victory points in the north west of Greece. I can slide down the east shore in the plains with armor much faster and grab Athens before the Italians can or the Greek army can react.
I am not at war with Yugoslavia and as they are a Axis member I can not declare war on them either without bringing war to the entire planet.

But I can take the southern part of Yugoslavia away from the Greeks. And the Axis can not do anything about it for 3 more years. That gets me one of the victory point locations in Yugoslavia now.

My next goal is to take Romania before they ally with anyone and get the black sea strategy effect.

 

[markkur]

I'm no expert and this is not identical to your situation but I found out; when playing as Turkey that I HAD to annex Greece instead of the puppet route I took. My making them a puppet left them in-play so to speak and Italy is hard-coded or scripted to attack Greece period. So in my case My AXIS allies were both attacking my puppet.

Italy is in the Axis now...correct? So, that would be war with Germany now. idk but seems to me it is either take what you can get of Greece and continue with whatever your other plans were or prepare for the big war now. I enjoy this game very much but I wish some of the scripts could be disabled to not fire and mess up puppets and the like.

Can you back up a bit and leave Greece alone or attack sooner to prevent the Italians from their interference?

 

[Kovax]

The outcome in Greece depends on what wargoals both you and Italy have set. If you control more Victory Points than Italy, and both only have Conquer wargoals, you might get all of it. If there are regional wargoals, whoever set those will probably get them, and it may result in getting whatever each party presently occupies. The mechanics are complex, and I'm not 100% certain what takes precedence in every case.

As for "can't declare war" because of a truce, either party can break the truce after 6 months if they can station enough forces on the border (something like 2x whatever the other party has parked on their side of it). After some amount of time, the required minimum force ratio drops, and after 3 years you can break it regardless of force balance. That means, if you don't guard the border heavily enough, Germany can freely declare war on you after 6 months.

 

[Oof]

AFAIK the USSR needs to control the capitol of a country and then it automatically becomes a soviet puppet and Greece will leave the Allied faction. So you did good to pick install communism. But whenever a country of another faction, also controls provinces these provinces will not swith to the Soviets. They will remain in control of that country, but will be displayed as occupied (diagonal patern). You can liberate those provinces as soon as your at war with Italy.

BTW Dont count on the three years of peace with the Axis to last. The Axis can DOW you if they have enough division at your common border!

 

[danhammer]

Thanks guys for your response. I am aware of the common border requirement with Germany. The thing that can mess up everything is if the USA or England land some troops in Greece to help out Greece. I did exactly that when I played the USA in a game. As I am not at war with the allies. And do not want to be, it would be indeed odd to end up at war with the allies before I go to war with the Axis, which will happen at some point, and then it will be a three way war for everyone. So then if Greece gets divided up three ways with some provinces owned by the allies then what?
Oh my mind is turning into mush. But I love this game so many possibilities. I applaud the programmers to build in this much complexity into this game and keep it mostly functional. If it mind bends me imagine what the flow chart looked like on the programmers board for all of this....to cover all possibilities even the remote chance possibilities.

If the allies get involved I cannot take any provinces they take from Italy. Nor can I take any provinces that Italy would take from the allies. The only provinces I can take are those that Greece would take from Italy but if I conquer Greece then they no longer have any forces to take a province. Oh it hurts my head hurts.

 

[danhammer]

Ok an update of what did happen after the fact.

I did win Greece with a puppet and an install communism war goal.
And odd enough there are no German units along the Soviet border. Not a single one.
I also did a conquer and install communism war goal on Romania and it occured only 10 hours after I captured Greece.
I got the Black Sea stategy effect.
Now along the Hungry border with Soviet and Romania borders there are only 7 Hungarian units total.
Along the Yugoslavia border there is only one Yugoslavian unit.
Now for Greece what you are waiting for. All of Greece converted to my control all the way to the border.
And Greece is its own government which is a puppet of the Soviets but still independant in game terms it has a truce with
all of the current Axis countries and all of the Comintern countries, it is also now listed as a Comintern member country and a puppet of the Soviet Union.
Now about all of those missing units, German, Hungarian, and Yugoslav. They are all in northern Greece or in Albania or in southern Yugoslavia.
Some 60+ including many Itallian units. They are all in retreat mode out of Greece back into Albania and southrn Yugoslavia.
Germany also declared war on Vichy France and so did the Allies about 10 days before I took Greece. I think some ofthe missing Germans went to take out Vichy France.
Germany also declared war on Norway. I am very tempted to open hostilities with the Axis right now. I could maybe run all the way to Berlin unrestricted.

How long does a Truce last for Greece? That will impact what I plan on doing....

By the way no Allies landed in Greece. I love the smell of Napalm in the morning!
What a great game....

 

[danhammer]

Interesting turn of events. It turns out I can not break the non-aggression pact with Germany. It shows a -0.1 units along the border with Germany as long as the negative value is in the list it will not let me break the pact. So I take this time to reorganize my units along the border for maximum effect when I can break the pact. And 3 days later guess what happens? On Oct 20 1940 the scripted event triggers for Italy to invade Greece. Pure luck on my part I had nothing to do with the timing of this event. So Greece shows that it is at war with Italy and Ethiopia but still has a truce with all the rest of the Axis countries. And as of right now there are still some 30 German units inside Greece which are retreating. But because Greece is a member of the Comintern The Comintern countries all rallied to the defense of Greece, so now I am at war with Italy and Ethiopia. But sadly still not at war with Germany. Almost but not quite. Stay tuned for more breaking news.