Need advice on how to create an "empire" and grant it independence, as a King

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Apr 21, 2022
Hi folks.

I'm playing tall as Sardinia, and it is the most enjoyable run I've had!

it is middle 13th century. I've build up a great economy, and created my own faith as a kinda "reformed orthodoxy". My strategy has been to strategically make claims on a capitol, and then use holy war as casus belli. I've created several kingdoms, Bavaria-France-Aquiotaine etc, with my faith and my dynasty, and granted independence. Those seem to be stable now, and I'm getting even richer from indulgense, and I can call on house members with huge armies.

Rather early, I did this in Greece, I destabilised the Byzant Empire, conquered and gave most of its early territory to a King of Hellas of my dynasty, and granetd independence.

I did this strategically - establishing a powerful polity of my faith to put a damper on those huge and powerful muslim kingdoms, for my own security, This has worked very well for a century.

But now this huge Kingdom of Hellas has just fractured into the kingdoms of Thessaloncia, Hellas, Nicea and Pontus. All are still of my dynasty, and all have claims on each other.

This situation has destabilized the region, These kingdoms will now go at each other, instead of being the massive deterrent presence on the muslims, as it was my intention it would be.

I fear they will be easy pickings for the strong muslim empires and kingdoms that have appeared further east and south.

I have claims of all kingdoms, I conquered them all again, with the intention of re-creating a powerful block of my faith again.

But this I cannot seem to be able to. I destroy all kingdom titles, give my favourite a strong power base, and then I want to unite the rest of the region under this person. But here I encounter a catch-22. Mosst dukedoms are already established. I cannot grant these as vasalls to my favourite, as he himself is just a duke, I cannot grant him a kingdom either, to solve that situation - as he will them be dependent as soon as I grant it. Revoking all the duke titles, so I can grant him vassals, will take me a lifetime of struggle and revolts. I immensly enjoy my super rich and powerful Sardinia playing tall, with just republican vassals. Then I can do all the intruige and tyrrany I want all the time, and hit succession running, not having to spend 10-15 years stabilizing my rule first.

So, is there a way I can still make a huge polity from my greece and anatolian posessions, under one ruler I can grant independence?
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Apr 21, 2022
I even tried to make an empire myself, so I could give my guy a Kingdom and them grant him all the dukes of the former super-kingdom. This worked, but then I can't grant him independence, as he is then de jure part of my empire.

And I cant grant him the empire title itself either, to then revolt and regain my independence as Sardinnia, as it is my primary title, and I don't have other empire titles I could make as primary. And I'm not interested in an empire either, I've built up this economically and military powerful small kingdom of Sardinia. I want to devote the remaining centuries to purely inntruige, wrecking havoc across the map "behind the scenes".
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Apr 21, 2022
Kinda, but in a very unsophisticated brute-force kind of way. The next centuries are going to be devoted to much more sophisticated subterfuge, manipulating instead of just attacking, conquering and establishing my faith and dynasty.

Anyway, I want a secure south-eastern strategic (in terms of religion security) flank against the muslims. Thats why I want a strong, stable and powerful polity of my faith there. My subterfube aspirations is directed northwards, to europe.
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I think what you want to do is pretty much impossible due to the way the game works but you could make a custom empire, grant the kingdom to your relative and after that give him the ducal realms you want to give him then set him free.

Unfortunately, you would have an empire but you could still remain the same size.
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If you can give your empire and kingdom title elective, you should be able to vote someone else the empire title and your hair the kingdom title. You should move your capital outside your kingdom, so that will go with the empire title. This might work
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Jan 16, 2021
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In theory you could make the empire title, wait for a claimant faction to spring up, provoke them (ie try to arrest one of them), then immediately surrender when they declare war. You would want to make sure the claimant was relatively strong so they would stay in power after.

You would then go back to being a king, but as part of their empire. You would need to start an independence faction to go free again, possibly waiting for the right time (like straight after their succession or after a war or something) to increase the odds they let you go without a fight.
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Apr 21, 2022
Thanks for the tips! I'll keep them in mind for future reference.

For now, luckily the situation seems to have stabilized . One of the kingdoms, Hellas, now occupies about 70% of the territory of the former super-kingdom, while the remaining ones are kinfolk. I also kept an eye on Hellas, and supported it whenever I could. Another perk of being the dynasty head, is that you get legal ways to interfere in dynasty dealings and going-ons!

I think it was down to how I made it to begin with. I made a very strong power base for a son to start with, and kept the whole greece and anatolia region for 30-40-50 years, to stabilize and convert. Now, the descendants of this son still controls this power base, and they use it to dominate the region.

But anyway, thanks again, some handy tips here for future reference!

Playing tall as a small kingdom is the gas! Only republican vassals, factions and successions are non-issues, with patience you get super rich and highly developed, and you can do pretty much whatever you want and make international designs without domestic worries!
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