Need a quick explanation of stacking and such

[unmerged(44239)]

Okay, editting this to bring actual/factual information to the top for others to read (old question is in bottom of post)


1) Division capacity of Generals: Mj.=3, Lt.=6, General=9, FM=12 (note, this is different from HoI2)

2) Each province uses the highest rank commander for leading troops when attacking, so
2a) 9 divisions defending from attack formed as 3 Divions under 1 Mj., and 6 under 1 Lt.. They will all use Lt. Gen as leader, meaning all divisions gets bonuses according to their commander and no stacking penalty.
2b) Same 9 divisions, but only Lt. Gen attacking (so 6 divisions) adjacted province, all gets full leader bonus and no stacking pen.
2c) Same 6 divisions under Lt. Gen attacking province, joined by neighbour Lt. Gen attacking with 6 divisions, all would get bonuses as they attack from different provinces, but if the Mj. commanded units joined the attack (from same province), none of these units would get bonuses, and would suffer stacking penalty.

3) HQ lead by Gen/FM doubles all surrounding (and so also affecting adjacted province leaders attacking provinces NOT adjacted) command capacity (Mj.=6, Lt.=12, General=18, FM=24), thus enabling 3 adjacted provincens attacking 1 province to attack it with 72 divions (if each is lead by FM)
They also give a substantial bonus to supply/recovery

4) HoI2 has combined arms bonus (soft+hard divisions attacking together) but tDarkest Hour has not.
ARM is still great for punching through lines, but unless you can achieve near instant breakthrough, it's a bad way of using ARM because they'll not have enough strength to exploit the opening, and/or hold it against enemy counter-attacks untill your infantry have arrived to fill the opening.
True to real combat, ARM is best used to counter attack (before enemy is entrenched) or at full speed encircling/hitting weak units. ARM engaged in static combat is not used properly.


I love this game...
Feel free to correct me, will keep updating topic if people have additions/corrections.


----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Old post
Not sure when I picked up my "habbits".

--------------
1)
But I am used to stacking divisions in 3's, 3 infantry, 3 mots etc... I will do smaller to garison, exploit openings etc... but for normal attacks, I stack 3.
For these (corps? groups?), for simplicity lets call them groups, I use General Majors.

When I conduct assaults using 2+ groups (either from same land, or from several), I will (try to) make sure either of this is true:
a) I support with an HQ unit, using a Lt. Gen+ (that has high enough rank to lead the amount of units engaged in combat)
b) One group has a higher rank general, so he (I guess) leads the assault
--------------
2)
I make groups of either:
a) 2 MOT's and 1 tank division, with attached brigades (never ART though, as they slow down, making the whole group lose it's purpose)
b) 3 MOT's with tank/eng brigades

I do the above, because one HoI had a "Combined Arms" bonus...
--------------


Not trying to be gamey, so not looking for some loophole. Just want to run my armies like an intelligent Field Marshal would do.

 

[unmerged(44239)]

On an unrelated note...

To paradrop you need two things: Air transports and Paratroopers.
Transports you can build from 1934, para from 1938.

Is there any use for the transports without the para's?
Can you transport normal units from one airbase you control, to another you control, but only drop into enemy land actual paratroopers?

So making transports an expensive way of moving troops to a beachhead, or evacuate them from a last stand?

 

[versasm2]

You can use them to drop supplies to your troops.

 

[unmerged(44239)]

Okay, seems to me that making Transports before you can get Paratroopers might be a waste of good IC.
Of course you can series run 3 of them, so they're ready for use, but no point in aiming to use them before you have paratroopers.

 

[Blecky]

Using a HQ with a leader rank below general will not give you its benefits (e.g. doubling the command limit for all adjacent provinces).

Combined Arms bonus no longer exists in DH Full. There are some mods though that still use it. Combining ARM and MOT will slow down MOT considerably.

You cannot transport any unit but paratroopers via transport planes.

 

[Epaminondas]

Following up on Blecky's first point, I think you've pretty much got your whole command structure out of whack, Spiv.

It's been so long since I attended to this function in my play that I might be off the mark, but as I remember a GM is only useful if in command of a single division, a GL can give his benefits to up to three, a G up to nine, and a FM up to twelve. So by putting a GM in control of a three-division group you're sacrificing any benefits his traits (DD, OD, LW, etc.) might confer.

 

[unmerged(44239)]

Under Gen. Majors, it says they can control up to 3 divisions, so that would be very misleading if this were the case.
Very very misleading indeed


I would prefer if it were like this though, as I am not using Lt.Gen much right now (playing Italy, so not that many divisions).

 

[unmerged(44239)]

Moved information to top, and updated it.

 

[Epaminondas]

It depends on how you intend to employ your "hard strike" units. I mostly play Germany and in my strategic design I've found that I get best value from my hard strike units by using them defensively. I'll use infantry brigaded with artillery to open up a hole in the enemy line, push my armour (also brigaded with artillery or SP artillery if available) through this to form the base of my pincer, and then give them the task of holding open that channel of advance while my infantry march to catch up and my motorised units push deeply into the enemy's unprotected rear to close off encirclements and seize key targets. Hence Blecky's point of not wanting to slow down your MOT by combining in with ARM.

 

[unmerged(44239)]

It depends on how you intend to employ your "hard strike" units. I mostly play Germany and in my strategic design I've found that I get best value from my hard strike units by using them defensively. I'll use infantry brigaded with artillery to open up a hole in the enemy line, push my armour (also brigaded with artillery or SP artillery if available) through this to form the base of my pincer, and then give them the task of holding open that channel of advance while my infantry march to catch up and my motorised units push deeply into the enemy's unprotected rear to close off encirclements and seize key targets. Hence Blecky's point of not wanting to slow down your MOT by combining in with ARM.

I understand, and this seems like a good way of using MOT.

But but... what happened to Blitzkrig??? Panzer blasting through lines, rushing through while infantry fill the gap!!!
I was going to use ARM to blast a hole, rush them through along with MOT, and as they left the province the hole was initially opened at, the slow infantry should have arrived to fill up.

 

[Epaminondas]

If you use your ARM to create the hole you'll burn up their org so badly that they'll be next to worthless for a considerable period, and if attacked during that period will fold like a house of cards. And your slow infantry might well catch up to fill the breakthrough province, but by the time they get there they'll be down on org also and so very ineffective in pushing forward into the next one.

The blitzkreig of 1940 and 1941 succeeded primarily because of the panic and damage to command and control caused by the penetrating armour, rather than any striking victories produced by armour blasting infantry apart. Once Germany's enemies developed ways of minimising these effects, the flaws in blitzkreig as an operational plan (e.g. over-extended and unprotected flanks, separation of armour from effective infantry support) became all to exploitable as the historical record demonstrates. If you want to see how Panzers blasting through enemy lines fared then, you won't find a better example than Kursk.

 

[Taylor]

Okay, I googled and studied, and learned

You were right, so will write down what I read.

1) Division capacity of Generals: Mj.=1, Lt.=3, General=9, FM=12

Didn't DH change if to Mj.=3, Lt.=6, General=12, FM=15? I know in HoI and in earlier versions of DH it was as you say above but I think they changed it, right?

 

[unmerged(44239)]

Yes, Kursk was the first time "Defence in the Depth" was utilized succesfully.

But Kursk was also a misuse of Panzer lead attack.
Not a military historian (or historian... ), but didn't they lack the element of surprise which is vital to using panzer right.
The succesfull blitzkrig strikes were all (mostly) conducted in areas enemies did not expect (most notably Belgium/Ardennes), or against someone who were in no way equiped to defend against it.
But the element of surprise was the most important factor, which I assume was why Rommel was born to conduct panzer battles as he was able to instantly change plans after attacks had begun to exploit weakness'

Anyway, I see your point, and agree.
Let infantry soak up the damage, and have MOT/ARM (even CAV) flow in through the hole at full strength.

 

[unmerged(44239)]

Didn't DH change if to Mj.=3, Lt.=6, General=12, FM=15? I know in HoI and in earlier versions of DH it was as you say above but I think they changed it, right?

I am using HoI2 information, so you could very well be right...
That was what I initially thought, but was not 100% certain.

 

[Taylor]

I am using HoI2 information, so you could very well be right...
That was what I initially thought, but was not 100% certain.

I looked it up in misc.txt, it says (for DH Full, dunno about the rest):

# Land Leader Command Limit (nr of divisions), Rank 0 (highest)
	12
# Land Leader Command Limit (nr of divisions), Rank 1
	9
# Land Leader Command Limit (nr of divisions), Rank 2
	6
# Land Leader Command Limit (nr of divisions), Rank 3 (lowest)
	3

So Generals can still command 9 and FMs 12, but Maj Gen and Lt Gen were indeed buffed.

 

[Epaminondas]

So Generals can still command 9 and FMs 12, but Maj Gen and Lt Gen were indeed buffed.

Well, there you go! Pays to keep up with the parade. Thanks Taylor.

 

[Eugenioso]

One final little detail!

you can turn on Combined Arms bonus in the Misc.txt file. I believe you can also change the bonus received to combined arms.

 

[vcgetdown]

In the original post there is still a lot of incorrect info. 2a and 2c are both incorrect, all units in both of those scenarios would get the bonus, no over stacking penalty

 

[unmerged(44239)]

In the original post there is still a lot of incorrect info. 2a and 2c are both incorrect, all units in both of those scenarios would get the bonus, no over stacking penalty

Great, thanks
Changed 2c, but are you sure 2a is wrong?
It's 9 divisions (I constantly mix divisions/units...) in same province being in combat, but only a Lt. Gen is present to lead?

Or is this whole system different when defending?
Would seem wrong to allow stacking 30 divisions in one province and allow them all full bonuses when all being lead by several Gen Mj.?

 

[Blecky]

Indeed, defending units only have to meet the command requirements for each "corps". If you have three corps of three INF each and each corps is lead by a Gen Mj. then there´s no over the command penalty (but there´s still a stacking penalty IIRC). Each GenMj. gives his trait bonus to his own corps (only) regardless of who is "leading" the defence.