Nebelwerfer (and all MLRS for that matter) still op

[Hawk8762]

So ive been giving it the benefit of the doubt, trying to learn to cope. But the simple fact is this is WAYYY too easy of an "I win" button for a contested urban area.
Should it be effective? Sure
But NOT SINGLE HANDEDLY WIPING OUT AN ARMY in a city.
Players should HAVE to fight for it, not having an "I win" button after which their troops can simply waltz in.
Damage and panic, sure. NOT insta wipes

And I'm sorry, but the statement of "well its the battlegroup's only good unit" does not excuse it being op. An op unit in a bad battlegroup is still op, so do not use that argument. Fix the battlegroup, fix the MLRS.

I will just quit the moment I see my opponent use MLRS, so you better hope I'm not on your team when I see that. I don't have the time and patience to put up with BS like that

 

[IronHat]

Rocket artillery should not benefit from correction bonus. Correction bonus represent forward observer correcting the howitzer's aim as the shell fall on target, something you can't do with MLRS.

The NATO country never really warmed up to MLRS because the US and UK had already mastered the act of Forward observation by ww2.

 

[Robstienburg]

It does need less tank suppression but I think the fact you quit soon as you see one is more an issue.

 

[local-festival]

Nah, it's not OP.

 

[Hawk8762]

It does need less tank suppression but I think the fact you quit soon as you see one is more an issue.

At that point, I no longer find the game fun, as any force I try to push into that city just dies
I do not play when I don't have fun

 

[Harold Alexander]

Nah, it's not OP.

Cant agree here, nebel 42 is OP af, lost challanger and command churchill to one burst of this rocket arty. In the same time Xylophone and early nebels are fine.

 

[MarcoRossolini]

I'll add my support to an MLRS non-observed option. They're expensive and short ranged.

I'm beginning to think the counter to MLRS is not destroying the MLRSs themselves but knocking out their supply trucks so they have at best 2 barrages and then are rendered ineffective. Plus if your opponent is foolish (like they were in a 10v10 I played recently) the explosion from the trucks will annihilate 2-3 other things in close proximity!

 

[Vyllis]

Rocket artillery should not benefit from correction bonus. Correction bonus represent forward observer correcting the howitzer's aim as the shell fall on target, something you can't do with MLRS.

I support this, i can't see how the rocket launcher system can be suddenly more accurate because some public is looking at the fireworks.

 

[local-festival]

Cant agree here, nebel 42 is OP af, lost challanger and command churchill to one burst of this rocket arty. In the same time Xylophone and early nebels are fine.

If it was a 15th inf. unit I would've been inclined to agree that it needs adjustment, but 17th Panzergrad? Nah it's fine. After all you're not after a symmetrical balance in Steel Division, are you?

 

[Karlburg]

I would like to see the nebelwerfer get nerfed, but also the 17.SS in general be buffed.

 

[Harold Alexander]

If it was a 15th inf. unit I would've been inclined to agree that it needs adjustment, but 17th Panzergrad? Nah it's fine. After all you're not after a symmetrical balance in Steel Division, are you?

that's not about symmetry but about ratio, IMO nebel is more powerful than Off Map Arty, but you can use it multiple times.

 

[core.-]

The nebelwerfers drawbacks is that they are not armored and slow. They can be easily eliminated with some medium arty or planes. You don't need to "see" it to "attack ground" it.
And if you Xylophone or Calliope the area the shots come from 8 times out of 10 you'll score a hit and kill it.

As for how "good" it is. Yes the Nebs are extremely powerfull, so are the wurframen btw, but we are talking about a time in history where after a few bombardments entire cities were rendered completely fucked. So it makes sense that some exists to facilitate that. The suppression of tanks and vehicles caused by ALL MLRS is a bit too damn hight but the complete destruction of cities is on point.

If you are a static player and your only tactic is to move inf into a city and keep it there, you are bound to get fucked on way or another. MLRS might seem like it is the only "chink" in your armor but it isn't there are plenty of other options to clear out a town effectively that come in the form of fire. You don't need 5 infantry to hold a town btw, you need to act like you have 5 inf hold the town, but in reality have 2 units pushed up punishing your enemy and 3 out side of the town in the back ready as reserves.

Just like AT guns hiding behind tree lines it is so damn important to have a "second" line. So often when playing once I beat the first line someone has the next thing I see is 500 points worth of reinforcements speeding in... why the hell did you not spend those points reinforcing your line before I crushed it?

I have replays upon replays of people smashing my "forward" units thinking they had "achieved" something when in actually they are just there to make you think exactly that. I show them I have 3-4 infantry and cheap vehicles in one place for a moment and hang on: Here comes the MLRS. totally pointless btw and even if you do hit one of my inf(which moves obviously) you'll think you can now push!
That's when the AT guns, the MG's and the light tanks punish the shit out of expensive units. The most Cost effective units: Armored car mounted mortars. Inf advance? No problem, Pin and surrender. Atguns and AA? No problem, 6 shots make the problem go away. Tanks? No problem, smoke or stress. Oh I am being counter arty'd? boo friggin who: armor bitches.

I think I rambled a bit... I'll be quiet now. What was my original point again?

 

[Jusas]

Honestly I wouldn't mind if the amount of all artillery was halved overnight, including offmap batteries.

As for the werfer '42, it's stronk. Perhaps a bit too stronk.

 

[ConjurerDragon]

So ive been giving it the benefit of the doubt, trying to learn to cope. But the simple fact is this is WAYYY too easy of an "I win" button for a contested urban area.
Should it be effective? Sure
But NOT SINGLE HANDEDLY WIPING OUT AN ARMY in a city.
Players should HAVE to fight for it, not having an "I win" button after which their troops can simply waltz in.
Damage and panic, sure. NOT insta wipes

And I'm sorry, but the statement of "well its the battlegroup's only good unit" does not excuse it being op. An op unit in a bad battlegroup is still op, so do not use that argument. Fix the battlegroup, fix the MLRS.

I will just quit the moment I see my opponent use MLRS, so you better hope I'm not on your team when I see that. I don't have the time and patience to put up with BS like that

https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/foru...team-account-to-sync-your-owned-items.894506/

 

[Grosnours]

Honestly I wouldn't mind if the amount of all artillery was halved overnight, including offmap batteries.

As for the werfer '42, it's stronk. Perhaps a bit too stronk.

Neither would I.
As for strength, I'd rather play with availability, veterancy and price rather than outright nerf a unit.

 

[MarcoRossolini]

The nebelwerfers drawbacks is that they are not armored and slow. They can be easily eliminated with some medium arty or planes. You don't need to "see" it to "attack ground" it.
And if you Xylophone or Calliope the area the shots come from 8 times out of 10 you'll score a hit and kill it.

Great - so I should bring more arty to counter arty?

Realistic, sure. But it makes for a really boring game.

 

[core.-]

Not -more- just some. Honestly, I don't bring Nebs anymore unless I need to decimate a town and of course because I prefer mortars. So you're telling me, you don't buy -any- arty?

You're allied ffs. You get the best air in the game, you're telling me you don't buy any medium bombers/thunderbolts?

I also have to state for the record: This is a ROCK-PAPER-SCISSORS game. I know some of you don't like to think of it like that and want all units to be jack-of-all-trades. But don't sit there and pretend that you don't have tools at your disposal to deal with shit.

 

[MarcoRossolini]

The point I'm getting at is that the game is already an artillery fest as it is.

 

[core.-]

You know as an allied player playing against the 17th or the 12th, that in Phase B the Nebels are coming out, you have a timer in the top right, you can retreat some of your units so there isn't any 1 concentration of things to shoot at. You know in phase B the neb's are coming out, so invest in a Bomber THE MOMENT Phase B hits, and get ready for it to shoot then attack ground that thing. Can't do that? Buy arty and counter arty. The way you speak you either already use alot of arty and think you need "even more" or don't use any in which case you're not using your battlegroup effectively.

On topic though: Are they OP? The 42 seems it but dies just as easily to a fighter plane(no armor) so I feel like it's balanced. If you still can't counter it and quit when it fires. Just stop playing this game altogether. Also what is your ingame name so I can avoid you?

For the record the reason I am not discussing the real reason it might or might not be OP is because you stated you would -LEAVE- the game. Which I take personally, cause so many people already leave.

 

[TGApples]

If it was a 15th inf. unit I would've been inclined to agree that it needs adjustment, but 17th Panzergrad? Nah it's fine. After all you're not after a symmetrical balance in Steel Division, are you?

This. The 17 SS is one of the worst (if not the worst) division because it's outmatched almost everywhere else. Sure, nebels may be annoying, but the only deck that has them at the moment gets stomped in the field. IMO they are only really a problem in 3v3 as pretty much all of the 3v3 maps are too small.

MLRS systems other than nebels aren't so dangerous, and don't come in such numbers.

It's asymmetrical balance. 17SS has Nebels, SK18, Pak 43 88mm, Stosstruppen and Ju 87G. Pretty much every other unit is average of below average. They have expensive German infantry, the tanks are OK, but nothing special, the planes are very limited, and they lack good support vehicles.

All that said, I'd wouldn't mind seeing an aiming time increase on all MLRS to make them less strong at blunting attacks.