Nazi program of elimination of crippled soldiers

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Amallric

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I was reading Jonathan Littell's The Kindly Ones and at some point is mentioned a unit that was supposedly gassing wounded German soldiers who were too crippled to be of any use for the fighting. The gassing was performed with a gas van. The existence of this unit was secret and their members were not to be sent near the frontlines so that they cannot be captured. Now this is a novel, but it is known for being extremely historically accurate. I did a few fact-checking myself and found everything exactly correct except for a few very minor errors. So I'd be inclined to trust Littell. However I have never heard of such a unit, I found this a bit shocking. Killing the Jews can be justified from a racial or nationalistic point of view, but killing fellow soldiers who have bravely fought in battle goes against everything any army in the world represents, actually I would tend to say that such an army simply cannot function anymore as an organisation. So does anyone know what this is about? And if this is true could you give a bit more information about this operation/organisation?
 

Kovax

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There were a distressing number of German soldiers who came up with foot wounds as the Eastern Front dragged on. Oddly, a lot of the wounds corresponded to German ammunition rather than Soviet, and it was obvious that a lot of soldiers found it less traumatic to shoot themselves in the foot than to suffer on the Russian Front for the rest of the war (or more likely the rest of their short lives). Orders went out that German soldiers with bullet wounds to the foot were to be "deal with" by execution. One early result was that a twice-decorated Iron Cross winner who was shot in the foot by the Soviets was then executed for a "self-inflicted wound" despite personal pleas by several high-ranking officers. I believe I came across this in the book "War Without Garlands", I can't recall the author off the top of my head.

I never heard of a "gas van", though.
 

Swamp Rat

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Killing the Jews can be justified from a racial or nationalistic point of view, but killing fellow soldiers who have bravely fought in battle goes against everything any army in the world represents, actually I would tend to say that such an army simply cannot function anymore as an organisation. So does anyone know what this is about? And if this is true could you give a bit more information about this operation/organisation?

I am not going to get into the discussion about the veracity of that story, but I don't really get your logic here. Surely if "racial or nationalistic" arguments can be used to justify genocide, some other nonsense argument can be used to justify killing wounded soldiers? I mean if you justify genocide you have pretty much opened up the field to justify everything imaginable.
 

Sejong

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One early result was that a twice-decorated Iron Cross winner who was shot in the foot by the Soviets was then executed for a "self-inflicted wound" despite personal pleas by several high-ranking officers.

That's crazy, first you award the guy for bravery (twice!) then you shoot him for cowardice. <facepalm>
 

JodelDiplom

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I am not going to get into the discussion about the veracity of that story, but I don't really get your logic here. Surely if "racial or nationalistic" arguments can be used to justify genocide, some other nonsense argument can be used to justify killing wounded soldiers?
No, not really.
I mean if you justify genocide you have pretty much opened up the field to justify everything imaginable.
No. How you can even make such an argument?? Jews = the "other" (not YOU). Veterans = YOU.

It would be such an attack on everything that holds the nation together, you might as well order your own entire army to kill their own mothers and babies and then strangulate themselves.
 

Amallric

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I am not going to get into the discussion about the veracity of that story, but I don't really get your logic here. Surely if "racial or nationalistic" arguments can be used to justify genocide, some other nonsense argument can be used to justify killing wounded soldiers? I mean if you justify genocide you have pretty much opened up the field to justify everything imaginable.

Well basically as I see it an army can only function if there is at least some mutual trust between the soldiers. All of the military drills and military-related ideology is based on building a sense of unity amongst soldiers, an "esprit de corps". You have to obey orders and risk your life, but the other side of the coin is that everyone else around you is doing the same. This is not a moral question, this is a psychological question. If every soldier cannot rely on the rest of his unit then the army cannot function as intended. There are as many examples as you want of soldiers who behaved in an extremely cruel way against enemies or civilians, but still treated their own comrades normally. I'm pretty sure even Dirlewanger people rescued their wounded from the battlefield. If this is not done then the military unit ceases to exist. If you know there is no help to expect from the other soldiers but only a bullet in the back once you're down, then what's the point of being in the unit alltogether? You'll be better off fighting on your own. So to come back to the idea of eliminating the wounded, I see how it does make sense from a logical point of view, but it seems so blatantly incompatible with the way an army functions that I find it hard to believe.

EDIT: JodelDiplom just said basically the same, just with less words than I^^
 

jamhaw

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What point in the novel is this claim made? Audi gets less and less reliable as it goes on...
 

Amallric

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That's a possibility, though the character is doing alright at that particular moment of the story(it is in 1943, when he's touring camps in the General Gouvernement to collect information for his study about prisoners' mortality). Could be one of the few purely fictional additions of the book like Dr.Mandelbrod.
 

StephenT

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Killing disabled and handicapped people was a Nazi policy from early on - Hitler signed the order to begin Aktion T4, as it was named, in 1939, two and a half years before the genocide of Jews got underway. Aktion T4 killed 70,273 adults and about 5000 children in two years of operation. In 1941 the operation was officially closed down, but many of the personnel involved carried on the work unofficially; exact numbers are not available but perhaps as many as 200,000 more people were killed.

The Nazis didn't even attempt to hide their euthanasia programme, although they certainly hid (a) the scale of it (b) the fact that it wasn't voluntary. Hitler actually issued an order in writing - something he normally was careful to avoid when it came to crimes against humanity - directing that "persons who, according to human judgement, are incurable, can, upon a most careful diagnosis of their condition of sickness, be accorded a mercy death."

Aktion T4 operated by asking doctors throughout Germany to provide lists of their long-term patients who were still capable of work. Naively, the doctors attempted to spare their sick patients by being generous in deciding those who were too sick for labour duties - only for this to backfire horribly when SS men in white coats came to take away those patients to 'special treatment centres'. Here they were murdered - at first by lethal injection, later by gassing. The bodies were cremated to hide the evidence, and later on the patient's next of kin would be told that they had tragically died of some infection or disease - pneumonia was the most common excuse used. A fake death certificate was issued to make it all seem above board.

The official justification for Aktion T4 was eugenics, improving the race: to quote Hitler again, "People who are physically and mentally unhealthy or unworthy must not perpetuate the suffering on their children.” In theory, therefore, the programme was aimed at those with hereditary disabilities, which would not include soldiers with crippling war injuries. However, some Nazis openly admitted that another justification was to clear hospital beds for more 'deserving' patients, because during a total war Germany should not be spending money or resources on caring for people who were no use to the State.

It should also be remembered that after Aktion T4 was formally shut down, many Nazi doctors carried right on euthanising the disabled - but now with no central supervision or official orders, acting purely on their own initiative (but safe in the knowledge that nobody in power would care). As such, while I don't know if the story in the book you've read is true, it's certainly conceivable that an over-enthusiastic unit might take it on itself to provide an involuntary 'mercy killing' to seriously wounded soldiers, in order to free resources to treat those who could be cured and sent back to the front.

Sure, it would hurt morale if the soldiers realised what was being done to their wounded comrades; but that was the point. They wouldn't know. The Nazis were good at lying. Good old Hans would be shipped to a field hospital behind the lines - likely with women nurses, the lucky bastard - but then a few weeks later would come a telegram saying that unfortunately, he'd died of pneumonia. How tragic.
 

Ming

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Aktion T4 operated by asking doctors throughout Germany to provide lists of their long-term patients who were still capable of work. Naively, the doctors attempted to spare their sick patients by being generous in deciding those who were too sick for labour duties - only for this to backfire horribly when SS men in white coats came to take away those patients to 'special treatment centres'. Here they were murdered - at first by lethal injection, later by gassing. The bodies were cremated to hide the evidence, and later on the patient's next of kin would be told that they had tragically died of some infection or disease - pneumonia was the most common excuse used. A fake death certificate was issued to make it all seem above board.

Goodness.

Did the SS even attempt to determine if the doctors had sandbagged or try to find some work they could do first or was it a death sentence once they showed up?
 

StephenT

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Goodness.

Did the SS even attempt to determine if the doctors had sandbagged or try to find some work they could do first or was it a death sentence once they showed up?
From the Wiki article:

(T)he adult cases were assessed by a panel of experts, working at the Tiergartenstraße offices. The experts were required to make their judgments solely on the basis of the reports, rather than on detailed medical histories, let alone examinations. Sometimes they dealt with hundreds of reports at a time.

On each they marked a + (meaning death), a - (meaning life), or occasionally a ? meaning that they were unable to decide. Three "death" verdicts condemned the person concerned. As with reviews of children, over time these processes became less rigorous, the range of conditions considered "unsustainable" grew broader, and zealous Nazis further down the chain of command increasingly made decisions on their own initiative.
 

JodelDiplom

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Oh dear, I remember reading about that sad episode.

Yes they euthanized all kinds of people, and no one, not even the churches, raised more than a minor complaint about it. In many cases even relatives who found out stated they didn't mind, they only asked that it be done gently.

It would be possible - theoretically - that some overzealous nurse or doctor, somewhere, went around euthanizing comatose wounded veterans. It was wartime and lots of crap happened that no one ever found out about. But it was certainly not a government policy, secret or not.
 

Arilou

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Oh dear, I remember reading about that sad episode.

Yes they euthanized all kinds of people, and no one, not even the churches, raised more than a minor complaint about it. In many cases even relatives who found out stated they didn't mind, they only asked that it be done gently.

It would be possible - theoretically - that some overzealous nurse or doctor, somewhere, went around euthanizing comatose wounded veterans. It was wartime and lots of crap happened that no one ever found out about. But it was certainly not a government policy, secret or not.

Actually, there were protests. (this was what lead to the "official" program being stopped)
 

JodelDiplom

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Actually, there were protests. (this was what lead to the "official" program being stopped)
A few people raised voices, yes. Like that protestant bishop, who complained that if the state euthanized people, at least a law should be passed about it. Being a good German, he didn't complain about the euthanization per se, only about the extralegal way in which it was done. After the war, they made him out to be a hero who threatened to throw himself in front of the cars carrying the death-doctors. Only in the 1990s did people get to look into the files and find out he was no hero at all.

But mostly the program was stopped once the majority of patients had "successfully" been euthanized.
 

Druplesnubb

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I remember my history teacher telling about Hitler euthanising people who were considered "useless" to the state, including crippled WW1 veterans. The fact that Hitler could talk about the noble German heroes getting stabbed in the back by the Jews and the government while also murdering those very same heroes is what codified his position as one of history's greatest monsters for me.
 

JodelDiplom

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Your history teacher may have been talking about the Jewish veterans of WW1. They were put into the gas chambers like the other Jews.

By the time Hitler's euthanasia movement got rolling, German nursing homes and hospitals would hardly have contained that many crippled veterans anyways. WW1 was 20 years past at that time. Perhaps they really did euthanize those few that still lived.

What they certainly did NOT do (on a planned level), is to go around the field hospitals on the east front, and euthanize every soldiers who couldn't hold a rifle any more.
 

Graf Zeppelin

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Your history teacher may have been talking about the Jewish veterans of WW1. They were put into the gas chambers like the other Jews.
My grandpa was Jewish and a WW1 veteran and he got protected by the army. Dunno how common that was tho.
 

unmerged(31881)

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I never heard of a "gas van", though.

Such vans were a prototype for larger, fixed installations.

I am not going to get into the discussion about the veracity of that story, but I don't really get your logic here. Surely if "racial or nationalistic" arguments can be used to justify genocide, some other nonsense argument can be used to justify killing wounded soldiers? I mean if you justify genocide you have pretty much opened up the field to justify everything imaginable.

Or more to the point... the mystification misses a sense of how the Nazis thought and operated.

"Useless eaters" and "life unworthy of life" were nasty phrases directed at those arbitrarily deemed retarded, criminal, deviant, etc. Obviously unfit for society, reproduction, life. So they do get neither food nor water and die lingering deaths. Or as events unfolded, killed with gas.

Old soldiers, crippled soldiers. They don't fight any more. What good are they then? (Especially if deserters.)

This chain of logic was mentioned at the time with regards to the whole T4 Aktion (iirc and mentioned in one of the Nuremberg trials).

Now, i do not know whether the gas-vans were deployed to murder German soldiers. And the possibility that the Nazi regime would kill "useless/crippled/elderly veterans" argument was raised by opponents of T4, iirc. i'm not sure that the regime afterwards took the critique as a suggestion, whether they planned it all along, or whether it is a conflation of individually true factors into a slightly muddled rendition of events.