Naval units question...

[unmerged(28147)]

I was wondering how many ships were represented by the different naval units. Are BB's and CA's individual ships, or are they more than one, and how many ships are represented by Subs and Destroyers? Also just curious if there was ever a number established for how many ships are represented by transports.

 

[Permanganate]

Battleships and cruisers are individual. I'm not actually sure how many subs/destroyers are in a flotilla, and since the forum search is down I can't look it up. I'd guess 10 for destroyers, since you get 10 convoy escorts when you send it on convoy duty. There are presumably 20 transports in a transport flotilla (Send on Convoy Duty again).

 

[unmerged(35344)]

Last I checked one DDivision translated as 10 escorts only for balancing purpouses and and a Destroyer group in hoi is calculated after the standard ww2 number: 4

 

[unmerged(28147)]

Okay, and Subs are? I'm also wondering how many carriers a carrier represents? If I remember the manual I got it said it represent 2 carriers.

 

[unmerged(35344)]

I don´t know about subs but I think they´re calculated as wolfpacks which is about 3-5 except nuclear subs which is just 1 for sure. Otherwise BBs, CVs, CLs and CAs are normal: 1 CV is indeed 1 CV.

 

[unmerged(1047)]

The manual is not necessarily to be trusted. Carriers, battleships, and cruisers are dealt with one by one; destroyers seem to be 10 based (as mentioned) on what you get sending them on convoy duty.

 

[unmerged(3221)]

Since HOI uses size 100 for every kind of unit, all we can do is compile info like that listed above or just guess. And your guess about number of fighters in an air unit, subs in a naval unit, or inf in a land unit are as good as anyone else's.

 

[unmerged(37065)]

Well, this is rather a question than a reply. Sorry if I interrupted something. The topic seemed familiar enough with the issue troubling me.
Question for the more experienced players: is it possible to capture another country naval units. E.g. can I as a German player somehow capture the French fleet, after the Vichy France has been formed.
The idea behind it was, you may guess, to combine the German, Italian and the French fleet in an attack of the "scepter'd isle"?

 

[Permanganate]

Well, this is rather a question than a reply. Sorry if I interrupted something. The topic seemed familiar enough with the issue troubling me.
Question for the more experienced players: is it possible to capture another country naval units. E.g. can I as a German player somehow capture the French fleet, after the Vichy France has been formed.
The idea behind it was, you may guess, to combine the German, Italian and the French fleet in an attack of the "scepter'd isle"?

This isn't really possible. You could try taking Military Control over the Vichy and Italian navies, but Military Control doesn't work properly for navies; the owning country AI can still move them and repeatedly will, screwing up all your orders. It can take months to get the Regia Marina over to the English Channel since they'll sail every way at once, and make up their own orders every day or two.

Just use naval bombers to take out their fleet and your small navy to shield transports while unloading once the RN is mostly gone or not around. if you don't want to wait, use your planes and paras to grab a channel coast province, and then your transports can go straight into harbor without waiting to unload. Your convoys will get hit, so stop them running when you lose ships and start them up again a day or two later.

 

[Pro_Consul]

Question for the more experienced players: is it possible to capture another country naval units. E.g. can I as a German player somehow capture the French fleet, after the Vichy France has been formed.
The idea behind it was, you may guess, to combine the German, Italian and the French fleet in an attack of the "scepter'd isle"?

In practical terms, no this is not possible in the current version of the game. It used to be possible, but not likely, to capture entire fleets when you captured the province where those fleets were currently sitting in port. More than once as Italy I would capture a sizable chunk of the Royal Navy, including a couple of carriers, by wearing them down with sub and air attacks to the point that they would retreat to a port in Egypt. I would then invade Egypt and when I got the port province I would have a decent, and quite unrealistic, chance of capturing the entire fleet there. Now with 1.06 this is no longer a real possibility. When you capture a port the most likely result is that the ships within will be destroyed or forced to put to sea. You may occasionally capture one or even two of the individual ships, but capture whole fleets is a thing of the past.

You could edit the Vichy creation event to introduce the possibility that Vichy will turn their ships over to you, but that would be pretty gamey. A more realistic approach, if you are Germany and just have to have control of the Vichy and Italian fleets, would be to use your DI to gain military control of those countries. Then you would be free to control their fleets in joint operations with your own, although you still would not be able to do such things as load your troops onto their transports or upgrade their ships using your own industry.

 

[unmerged(37065)]

This isn't really possible. You could try taking Military Control over the Vichy and Italian navies, but Military Control doesn't work properly for navies; the owning country AI can still move them and repeatedly will, screwing up all your orders. It can take months to get the Regia Marina over to the English Channel since they'll sail every way at once, and make up their own orders every day or two.

Perhaps, then, it would be a better idea to load as the Italian player and send their fleet to Germany as the expeditionary force? Of course, if you consider this cheating, you will find it unacceptable, but I don't see why not, since it would be equivalent to the proper behaviour of the units under Military Control.
BTW, is it possible to relinquish Military Control once you decide you've had enough?
Anyway, I think I once had a situation where the French fleet became the Vichy France one, but soon died fighting with the British Mediterranean task force. I was foolish enough not to take the Military Control and exploit this. At that time I was discovering that taking over the Suez and Gibraltar straits simultaneously effectively sealed the Mediterranean turning it into Mare Nostrum , and was so thrilled with this idea that I failed to use the Vichy fleet in a proper way. o

 

[unmerged(3221)]

You can not relinquish military control within the game. You can find the Italian section in a saved game and remove the control tag.

The problem with any naval or air units that the AI can move is that they will do weird things with them. No matter if they are expedtionary forces or units under your military control. As long as the AI can move them, they will, and they will move them to stupid places.

Ex.: I took control of Vichy France's large navy and got them in Brest which I controlled. I reorganized them. I left them in port. A few weeks later I found half of their navy sitting outside Casablanca. Since the Brits had Gibraltar and the Suez Canal, they could not sail into the Med. But they choose to instead just sit there in harm's way for no apparent reason rather than safely staying in port. I just disbanded them at that point because then at least Vichy France would have a reason to build a few inf. At sea they consume oil and some supplies and Vichy France can not afford that.

As Germany I assume military control of my Hungarian and Romanian allies and use their armies first in Russia and then to guard western Euro coasts. But I don't try that with Italy because the AI can still move the navy and air force around. It's too aggravating to me to try to handle that though others find it worth the bother.