Naval troop transporting as Strategic Redeployment

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unmerged(151594)

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This from the thread on the costs of transport ships http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?t=434523

I like the idea to use convoys as a basic to calculate a strategic redeployment efficiency.
That way, if let's say Germany uses its historical 15 convoys to transport a division to England, it would take a month, while the UK could theoretically transport it in a day if all equipment and men were sent at once.

Transport ships inturn should only be built for assaults, as each ship can transport a division, it should be done for a considerable price. That way you can easily have the number of liberty ships etc be represented as convoys (with the more historic cost) and only a small number of lengthy and costly to built assault transporters for those nations that plan on invading overseas.

This would finally lead to amphibious operations requiring lengthy planning as it took historically.

This is a really REALLY good idea, As it is in ARMA I always build a huge pile of transports, because they cost me next to nothing as a major nation, and then just land the equivelant of army group South in an afternoon.

The calculation should probably be based on the naval base level of disembarkment-province and target province respectively + the distance between the two + amount of available convoys in the convoy pool (as per Shilo's suggestion). Loss of manpower in the transported units could be based on convoy raiding along the transport route + be affected by enemy naval groups along the way.



Having the current transports representing expensive "assault fleets", with small groups landing on the beaches desperately fighting for time until reinforcements can be landed calls for epic, desperate battles (Although the AI might be hard pressed to planning a landing like that - even more than it is now)

This also encourages historical invasion points. E.G. as it is now, I just land anywhere on the coast of northern Europe on D-day, because I can, But if i am suddenly reliant on my army ariving via SR (transport time being based on distance) I would be forced by sircumstance (the SAME sircumstances that the Allies faced historically) to land on the beaches of Normandy, as God intended. This will also up the importance of the desert war - it will be the stepping stone to Italy, even more than it is now. Also, this will make it possible for the Germans to actually send an Africa korps to fight in North Africa - SR using the Italian naval infrastructure, as they would normally do on land.



This would also have an effect on the embarking/disembarking speed mentioned in another thread;

http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?t=433913

If the main landing is handled as a SR operation, with only the first assaultwave being actually landed on the first day, this more or less removes the problem of instant load/unload of hundreds of thousands of troops.

Of course, more or less removing the transport ship type, as is basically what this suggestion is, kills my favourite passtime when playing UK; sinking Axis transport ships (and their human cargo) off the coast of Norway and in the med, in stead of meeting those transported divisions on land later.:D
 

Alex_brunius

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Nice summary.

This probably require the assault transports to work more like transport airwings doing air-drops currently do. Losing all org and unable to do another amph-assault before its regained.

The problem with the suggestions is in the nature of SR. Currently SR also makes all the divisions arrive at the same day, even if its a week or two later. For this suggestion/idea to work SR needs to have the troop buildup arrive gradually.

So either it needs to split up all the divisions into components landing the division say 1% at a time, or it needs to split up the total amount of divisions en-route and land the divisions one by one after a calculated amount of minimum time.
 

unmerged(20048)

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This would indeed be a nice addition. It would remove a lot of micromanagement of shipping troops around. Furthermore strategic redeployment of troops does not necessitate specialized amphibious assult ships but can readily be done by seized ferries, cruise ships (e.g. Queen Mary).

Transport ships would still be incredible important as a means to do the actual first conquest of the beach head.

About the arrival I would suggest to calculate the average transport time for 1 division and then just multiply by 3 this if you decide to ship 3 divisions combined, some men will arrive before but all the divisions will not be operational until all have arrived.

For example if you strategically redeploy 1 division and 3 divisions seperately from NY to london and the transport time (calculated from number of free convoys, distance and to/from naval base levels) is 1 month, the 1 division would arrive after 1 month and the 3 after 1+3=4 months.
 

Cardus

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I'm with this proposal
 

Alex_brunius

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About the arrival I would suggest to calculate the average transport time for 1 division and then just multiply by 3 this if you decide to ship 3 divisions combined, some men will arrive before but all the divisions will not be operational until all have arrived.

For example if you strategically redeploy 1 division and 3 divisions seperately from NY to london and the transport time (calculated from number of free convoys, distance and to/from naval base levels) is 1 month, the 1 division would arrive after 1 month and the 3 after 1+3=4 months.
I don't think this would be a good Idea. Because you could either have 10 divisions redeploy together and all arrive after the max time, or you could micromanage and split them up and have alot more force there alot earlier.

If It's done this way with your numbers the force of 3 divisions should arrive after 1+(3/2) = 2.5 months, the average time Imho. This means both ways have advantages.
 

Der Bismarck

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I think the less abstraction the better. You should be able to build rail lines, which represent major rail trunks & only be able to strategically redeply along connected rail lines. Raillines would build like infrastructure. They could also be targets for partisans & Strat Bombers.
 

DarkLight

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I see the merits in this. However, all the examples given were for Europe. How would such a modification apply to the Pacific? I really believe that the Pacific needs fleet trains and an advanced based building tech.

WWII had the massive land armies in Europe along with the smaller, but much more spread out forces of the Pacific. Two very different forms of warfare. If you're going to propose a change in naval troop transport, please make sure you consider what impact those changes will have in the Pacific, which had many more D-Days than Europe.