Naval Supply for Sieges.

[Fluffy_Fishy]

Today I was reading up on the siege of Candia, the longest siege in history at 22 years and it got me thinking about adding a naval supply system to the game.

I see it working roughly opposite to the blockade mechanic where either the presence of friendly ships on the coast add an effect where a besieging land army struggles much more to take hold of a coastal province due to a navy supplying the town with resources to hold out, food and munitions ect. It could also potentially work as a fleet order where you tell your navy to supply towns, I would be fairly happy with either way.

A simple fleet supply system could add a lot to the naval nations and help them stand out a bit more, currently the system favours land powers and renders navies fairly useless, its not optimal to siege down a town without blockading it but its only a minor annoyance, you don't really need to care about it at all. It would be nice if this system was changed to bring some depth to being a sea power. This kind of suggestion would also make the naval ideas a bit more attractive because it means you actually benefit properly from having a navy.

There is plenty of historical basis for this happening but Candia is probably the most notable. Friends of mine have said it could have similar basis for air support from the HOI series, but I cant comment because I don't have first hand experience to how that works exactly.

Please consider this minor addition that could have quite a strong impact to the game, and thank you for reading.


TDLR:
Allow navies to actively supply besieged towns to prolong siege times for more naval depth and historical accuracy.

 

[Sun_Wu]

This sounds like a great idea for balance and is even historical. It would be great to have navies actually useful for once

 

[rivtaldm]

Agreed, this seems like it could readily be added into the list of possible naval assignments.

Decide on a sea zone to effect and the fleet will travel between your capital (or some other relevant supply point?) and that sea zone. All friendly besieged provinces in that sea zone gain a bonus to prolong the siege based on the percentage the fleet is able to supply the provinces (calculated the same/similar way the engine calculates percentage that is blockaded by a fleet). Of course your enemies can attack and damage/sink the fleet just as they can fleets protecting trade or hunting pirates when at war; a fleet that is blockading said province(s) will of course come to blows with the supply fleet the next time they arrive.

It has the potential to add historical depth and a realistic representation of the challenge that was involved in sieging coastal cities without a superior fleet.

 

[Fluffy_Fishy]

I haven't thought too much about the numbers involved but I would suggest something like an additional -2 to double the current effect of not blockading the port, this gives enough of a bonus without actually resulting in 22 year sieges, this could perhaps be expanded on in an idea group that gives an additional -1 but I am probably getting ahead of myself.

It's such a simple easy change that could have such a great effect on naval game play and balance meaning sailors, naval production and naval idea groups are actually worthwhile, it also means that it's much more realistic that land empires can't curbstomp naval empires and thassalocratic states on coastal regions with no regard for coastal supplies

 

[Timewalker102]

Anything that makes navies useful is good. Hell, it could be as simple as "for each friendly ship next to the fort, add +2.5%/+5%/+7.5%/+10% (depending on the type of ship) defensiveness".

 

[Fluffy_Fishy]

Anything that makes navies useful is good. Hell, it could be as simple as "for each friendly ship next to the fort, add +2.5%/+5%/+7.5%/+10% (depending on the type of ship) defensiveness".

I personally think it would work best if it was a little like artillery but done by a value taken from something to do with the fleet power for a modifier of -1, -2, -3 ect but I would be happy just so see any simple solution put in like the flat -2 I discussed earlier or even if its the defensive bonus as you say .

Programming a fleet order or just a sitting by bonus wouldn't be difficult or take too long, you could easily roll out a feature like that in a day or two at most by modifying and adding a couple new values. The work input to value output would be incredibly rewarding, I just hope Paradox take notice, it could so easily be a small but valuable feature in the upcoming expansion or 1.18.

 

[Canute VII]

Isn't the -2 siege in sea side fort provinces meant to stand for naval supplies, unless the province is blockaded?

 

[Fluffy_Fishy]

Isn't the -2 siege in sea side fort provinces meant to stand for naval supplies, unless the province is blockaded?

The -2 unless I am mistaken is meant to represent local small boats being able to escape to gather supplies. What I am suggesting is an active naval supply done by a large organised fleet which is quite different. An organised supply fleet could keep a well fortified defence intact for years extra, unlike supplies brought by an unorganised flotilla which could only really sustain a hold out for a few extra months. The point is as much to do with trying to make maintaining a large navy useful as anything, because the current system means maintaining a navy is almost a waste of money unless you have a straight to block or are playing one of a handful of nations.

 

[Canute VII]

The -2 unless I am mistaken is meant to represent local small boats being able to escape to gather supplies. What I am suggesting is an active naval supply done by a large organised fleet which is quite different. An organised supply fleet could keep a well fortified defence intact for years extra, unlike supplies brought by an unorganised flotilla which could only really sustain a hold out for a few extra months. The point is as much to do with trying to make maintaining a large navy useful as anything, because the current system means maintaining a navy is almost a waste of money unless you have a straight to block or are playing one of a handful of nations.

Well, sure, but on the other hand your fleet is already able to deny the enemy fleet blockading the fort province and hence cancelling the -2 siege... (Not, that there aren't ways for the devs to improve forts and navies)

 

[Fluffy_Fishy]

Well, sure, but on the other hand your fleet is already able to deny the enemy fleet blockading the fort province and hence cancelling the -2 siege... (Not, that there aren't ways for the devs to improve forts and navies)

There are plenty of ways that things could be improved with complex and great solutions but this is something that is both easy to do and historical, it makes far more sense to put in a simple system like I have suggested than to do a complete overhaul and make everything magical and working. This kind of thing could so very easily be planted in a DLC as one of the mini-features.

 

[Sun_Wu]

Well, sure, but on the other hand your fleet is already able to deny the enemy fleet blockading the fort province and hence cancelling the -2 siege... (Not, that there aren't ways for the devs to improve forts and navies)

There is a difference between having the fishing boats being able to make supply runs and a fleet being specifically assigned to replenish the city which allows it to have food and water for a long time

 

[Canute VII]

So from the perspective of the sieging party, effectively, the only way then to capture the fort, given you do not have naval superiority, would be to hope for "walls breached" and then storm the walls, right?

 

[Fluffy_Fishy]

No, the time it takes would just be extended to make it more painful for the attacker, leaving navies to have an actual use in defensive wars. it wouldn't mean you could only attack from breached walls, currently as a besieger not having naval superiority is such a minor annoyance that it makes next to no difference should your entire navy get sunk when it should make at least some difference, as an example extending a -2 to a -4 under active naval support would be a big step in the right direction.

 

[Canute VII]

Ok, I'll accept this motion