You cant just embark your troops and start naval invasion without local sea naval superiority? Why? Its gameplay restriction to player for taking as Germany Great Britain in 1940?
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Naval Superiority (WWW Japan SP №2)
- Thread starter Suor
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Yes, mostly because launching Sea Lion with the entire Home Fleet intact is ludicrous
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Well.... Then, operation weserübung will never happen ? It's unlikely an AI Germany will ever have sea superiority even in the northern sea. UK got so much ships to send.... And the AI is using them quite well, unlike what happened IRL
The effect of surprise was the key point in the success of that operation. Without that, it would have been most likely a failure. And the invasion of Norway was quite important in the second world war.
There might be a hope for Germany:
Build a ton of planes (fighters + TAC + Naval B) gain total air superiority, keep decimating airfields and use planes to destroy Royal Fleet.
Use your availiable Kriegsmarine fleet to hold sea provinces so your toops can get through channel.
If you focus on this strategy since the beginning, you might make succesfull Sea Lion but your ground forces wont be strong enough to strike soviets (maybe rely on non-agression pact and hope that soviets wont strike first).
Build a ton of planes (fighters + TAC + Naval B) gain total air superiority, keep decimating airfields and use planes to destroy Royal Fleet.
Use your availiable Kriegsmarine fleet to hold sea provinces so your toops can get through channel.
If you focus on this strategy since the beginning, you might make succesfull Sea Lion but your ground forces wont be strong enough to strike soviets (maybe rely on non-agression pact and hope that soviets wont strike first).
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The Operation Torch landings in Morocco were launched from the United States across an Atlantic still contested by U-boats. It was a bit of fortune that their troop convoys were not encountered and attacked.
I imagine the local concentration of Uboats over the Atlantic is a *little* lower than the possible concentration of ships around the English Channel. Contested as the Mid-Altantic gap may have been I don't see how they can intercept significant number of ships without much better intel.
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Operation Torch was escorted by 300+ warships while the axis maybe had a dozen or so subs in the area. That's naval superiority.
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While I don't have a figure on the escorts for the transit, the Atlantic crossing was made by 102 transports. The total warship strength for Torch was 152, between battleships, carriers, cruisers, destroyers, and escorts.
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The more I looked at it, the less sense it makes. Case in point: the US landing on Guadalcanal. Marines were hastly landed under the cover of weather without the USN clearing the sea first, which eventually resulted in the defeat in the Battle of Savo Island where the USN withdrew from the vicinity, and the Marines were forced to dug in by Henderson for a while, withstanding assaults and bombardments without steady supply until decisive USN victories months later. IIRC, being deprived of CAG cover and the bombardment of Henderson Airfield contributed to the USMC's crying for a fixed wing VTOL now, so this was not just a minor incident.
Look at it this way, Naval superiority is a matter of having more ships than the opposite side. Daniel demonstrated it by trying to sneak just a few subs into the channel to get naval superiority only to find that the RN was heavily patrolling the channel. In that situation, no sane commander would load up defenseless transports and order them to sail into a heavy patrol of BBs, CAs and assorted screens. In game, it's tantamount to suicide since there is 0 chance of making it across without being intercepted. For game design purposes the best way is to simply not allow naval invasions when you have no naval superiority to prevent needless suicides of entire invasion forces to warships. This should work fairly well.
Island warfare is something that's not well represented because
1) Islands are so small yet strategically valuable that it's magnified on map simply to appear as a province.
2) Being small, there's no way to establish a beachhead like in other landmasses where you can push inland after landing troops.
3) Players are forced to continually cover transports till the invasion suceeds
Most islands didn't hold anything close to corps sized forces, but in HOI3 and I suspect HOI4 it will be the case since it's the only way to balance against a corp level invasion. We're just going to have to deal with that bit of unreality as the game doesn't deal well with brigade level forces fighting each other.
Island warfare is something that's not well represented because
1) Islands are so small yet strategically valuable that it's magnified on map simply to appear as a province.
2) Being small, there's no way to establish a beachhead like in other landmasses where you can push inland after landing troops.
3) Players are forced to continually cover transports till the invasion suceeds
Most islands didn't hold anything close to corps sized forces, but in HOI3 and I suspect HOI4 it will be the case since it's the only way to balance against a corp level invasion. We're just going to have to deal with that bit of unreality as the game doesn't deal well with brigade level forces fighting each other.
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Still prefer a option to make invade attempt without naval superiority with slim chance of success.
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I suspect that this will be moddable in the defines file, by searching for the threshold for launching naval invasions. If you think it's realistic to be able to send forces through a blockade, then hopefully it'll be changable for your personal games. Other than that, it's very helpful for preventing people ignoring naval superiority entirely and just sealioning against AI ENG to abuse the AI being unable to defend properly like in HOI3.
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From Dev Diary 48 about naval invasions.
The times are gone where you could literally sneak past the british navy and invade the UK in HoI III by sea quiet easiely, especially if there was a undefended harbour.
If you capture harbours with paratrooers however you can simply move your land troops across the channel, but hope that they will get through in one piece or at all and arent intercepted.
The times are gone where you could literally sneak past the british navy and invade the UK in HoI III by sea quiet easiely, especially if there was a undefended harbour.
If you capture harbours with paratrooers however you can simply move your land troops across the channel, but hope that they will get through in one piece or at all and arent intercepted.- 1
It would be one thing to sneak troops ashore (still unlikely though) but keeping them supplied with no naval supremacy would be even more difficult
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It wasn't fortune. Remember by this time Enigma had been broken, the position/numbers of the subs were known. IIRC the commanders of the operation knew that the only subs in the area that might have interfered with the transports went off south chasing after a convoy from West Africa. Whether that convoy was deliberately sent out to get them out of the way I'm not sure.
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