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Agenor

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I've started an Italian campaign, and my naval strategy so far is

1. Don't build subs
2. Build naval bombers

But what ships should I build? Some updated destroyers, and possibly one or two aircraft carriers? I certainly won't be able to match the UK's fleet, let alone the Americans.
 

nkibilko

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Don't mess with carriers as Italy, you don't have the industry or doctrine for it.

Focus on battleships and destroyers. Battlecruiser 2 is a good ship as well if you can get it at decent time, like 38 or 39. I personally go for 2 super heavy battle ship 1's though at least by 1940.

And again, destroyers. Make sure you get the latest ones right away, and take the focus to get ahead on them. They are your cannon fodder, you need tons and tons of them. You will never have enough, you want 15 dockyards producing destroyers at all times, ideally 30 dockyards.

Also, unite every last ship you have into one fleet, keep it in the Mediterranean. If you try splitting your fleet early on, you will be annihilated. It sucks because you're limited to only covering 3 sea zones, but if you try to do more than that your whole navy will be obliterated by UK and France. Keep it together.. Once you have like 250-280 ships you should be safe to split your fleet if you need to.. But only if you have Naval Doctrine fully researched.

Naval Doctrine is absolutely massive, i suggest having one research slot dedicated solely to it. You want the left side and bottom of Fleet in Being ASAP.
 
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Meglok

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I've started an Italian campaign, and my naval strategy so far is

1. Don't build subs
2. Build naval bombers

But what ships should I build? Some updated destroyers, and possibly one or two aircraft carriers? I certainly won't be able to match the UK's fleet, let alone the Americans.

Carriers can wait at first, and may not even be needed until 1942 or so.. Sicily, Rhodes, and Sardinia are your aircraft carriers. And carriers require a considerable investment in research better used on naval doctrines and surface ships.

Along with NAV build FTRs to control at least the central Med. Air superiority nerfs carrier op efficiency, total air superiority prevents carrier ops. After those types CAS, then Hvy FTR, then TAC in priority depending on available MIC and oil. The heavies are good against the strat bombers sure to be heading your way from England.

Upgrade your fleet. You have a lot of ships but they are old. More destroyers are a must, they die in droves in surface combat. Light Cruisers as well. So upgrade to Level II asap after the 1936 construction techs and Level II when you can. And do not forget to build transports, You will need them.

You start with Level II BBs and Level I CAs and BCs. So which way do you want to go? You have time to get Level II cruisers but you don't start with much NIC, you have to choose one path. Cruisers mean weaker ships but more ships fighting. BB's mean fewer but tougher ships. The objective is to get into a gun battle with the odds in your favor. Due to the current naval mechanics I prefer BBs as they are more likely to survive to fight again.

Radar is vital. It improves both your air and naval detection and interception chances. Level 2 on Sicily, Sardinia, and Rhodes is usually enough at start. if you are short on CIC Sicily is the priority.

Pick one port and build 5 positional AA on it. The Allies love to port strike you, this will help reduce damage. I usually go for Taranto as the northern ports are too close to the UK. Also fly some air superiority over the port if you have the spare fighters, it will stop the bombers from flying port strikes. Unfortunately I have found I never have enough fighters as Italy, so the P-AA is a fall back.

Pre-War Strategy - you may want to annex Yugoslavia before WT hits 25%. That is a lot of CIC and plenty of open slots for more MIC and NIC. Once WT hits 25% the Allies will block any further expansion against neutrals and democracies with guarantees. Some people say also grab Hungary, I disagree as that takes a ton of divisions off the table that the ai needs vs Russia. And Hungary is likely to offer those division to you. Better they die in your service than you get a few more factories as you will get almost no manpower from non-core states.

Tactics - do not sail your fleet until France falls. Period. There is no need to lose ships to the soon to be Vichy Fleet. Use every NAV and CAS you have to attack in the Central Med, preferably with FTR cover. Let them chew on the RN and soften it up. If the Allies try to invade shift your aircraft there. You won't hit transports but you will hit anything giving the Allies naval superiority there.

Only engage when you have air superiority and preferably when you have the odds in your favor, you want a gun battle. The objective is to take small bites out of the RN and live to fight another day. Destroying half of the RN while it wrecks the entire Regia Marina is a Pyrrhic victory you can't afford.

Your subs are best used with your fleets. They are going to die anyway so you might as well hope they sink some of th RN as they die.

Obviously grab the Suez (very easy) and Gibraltar asap to make the Med your lake and allow you outlets for trade. Oil you can grab in the Middle East past Suez, for rubber you need to either build synth factories or trade with Japan. I prefer opening the Suez.
 

Dalwin

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Carriers can wait at first, and may not even be needed until 1942 or so.. Sicily, Rhodes, and Sardinia are your aircraft carriers. And carriers require a considerable investment in research better used on naval doctrines and surface ships.

Along with NAV build FTRs to control at least the central Med. Air superiority nerfs carrier op efficiency, total air superiority prevents carrier ops. After those types CAS, then Hvy FTR, then TAC in priority depending on available MIC and oil. The heavies are good against the strat bombers sure to be heading your way from England.

Upgrade your fleet. You have a lot of ships but they are old. More destroyers are a must, they die in droves in surface combat. Light Cruisers as well. So upgrade to Level II asap after the 1936 construction techs and Level II when you can. And do not forget to build transports, You will need them.

You start with Level II BBs and Level I CAs and BCs. So which way do you want to go? You have time to get Level II cruisers but you don't start with much NIC, you have to choose one path. Cruisers mean weaker ships but more ships fighting. BB's mean fewer but tougher ships. The objective is to get into a gun battle with the odds in your favor. Due to the current naval mechanics I prefer BBs as they are more likely to survive to fight again.

Radar is vital. It improves both your air and naval detection and interception chances. Level 2 on Sicily, Sardinia, and Rhodes is usually enough at start. if you are short on CIC Sicily is the priority.

Pick one port and build 5 positional AA on it. The Allies love to port strike you, this will help reduce damage. I usually go for Taranto as the northern ports are too close to the UK. Also fly some air superiority over the port if you have the spare fighters, it will stop the bombers from flying port strikes. Unfortunately I have found I never have enough fighters as Italy, so the P-AA is a fall back.

Pre-War Strategy - you may want to annex Yugoslavia before WT hits 25%. That is a lot of CIC and plenty of open slots for more MIC and NIC. Once WT hits 25% the Allies will block any further expansion against neutrals and democracies with guarantees. Some people say also grab Hungary, I disagree as that takes a ton of divisions off the table that the ai needs vs Russia. And Hungary is likely to offer those division to you. Better they die in your service than you get a few more factories as you will get almost no manpower from non-core states.

Tactics - do not sail your fleet until France falls. Period. There is no need to lose ships to the soon to be Vichy Fleet. Use every NAV and CAS you have to attack in the Central Med, preferably with FTR cover. Let them chew on the RN and soften it up. If the Allies try to invade shift your aircraft there. You won't hit transports but you will hit anything giving the Allies naval superiority there.

Only engage when you have air superiority and preferably when you have the odds in your favor, you want a gun battle. The objective is to take small bites out of the RN and live to fight another day. Destroying half of the RN while it wrecks the entire Regia Marina is a Pyrrhic victory you can't afford.

Your subs are best used with your fleets. They are going to die anyway so you might as well hope they sink some of th RN as they die.

Obviously grab the Suez (very easy) and Gibraltar asap to make the Med your lake and allow you outlets for trade. Oil you can grab in the Middle East past Suez, for rubber you need to either build synth factories or trade with Japan. I prefer opening the Suez.
Mostly good advice.

I disagree on the point concerning subs. You can base subs in Somalia or Eritrea and have good access to some vital shipping lanes through the Red Sea and Indian Ocean. In SP subs can achieve much more damage than their own meager production cost. I am not suggesting that Italy should put much, perhaps not even any, effort into building additional subs. However, the ones you start with can be put to better use than simply throwing them away in the Med.
 

redrum68

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I tend to focus on 1 type of screen ship and 1 type of capital ship. So say destroyers and battleships. Subs are mostly useless for Italy and I think carriers are too expensive in terms of both research and production. You should group all your starting ships and any you build into a single Med fleet then take on UK and France fleets (at least against the AI in SP).
 

Meglok

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Mostly good advice.

I disagree on the point concerning subs. You can base subs in Somalia or Eritrea and have good access to some vital shipping lanes through the Red Sea and Indian Ocean. In SP subs can achieve much more damage than their own meager production cost. I am not suggesting that Italy should put much, perhaps not even any, effort into building additional subs. However, the ones you start with can be put to better use than simply throwing them away in the Med.

If the naval system and submarines were being revamped and upgraded I would agree with you totally. I just feel the meager impact subs can have on supply and resource is of less importance to Italy than whittling down the RN. If the subs damage and take down some ships in battle that is a win in my book. The overall goal is to remove the RN as a threat. Hitting convoys is not going to accomplish that.
 

Qara Kipchak

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Don't mess with carriers as Italy, you don't have the industry or doctrine for it.

Focus on battleships and destroyers. Battlecruiser 2 is a good ship as well if you can get it at decent time, like 38 or 39. I personally go for 2 super heavy battle ship 1's though at least by 1940.

And again, destroyers. Make sure you get the latest ones right away, and take the focus to get ahead on them. They are your cannon fodder, you need tons and tons of them. You will never have enough, you want 15 dockyards producing destroyers at all times, ideally 30 dockyards.

Also, unite every last ship you have into one fleet, keep it in the Mediterranean. If you try splitting your fleet early on, you will be annihilated. It sucks because you're limited to only covering 3 sea zones, but if you try to do more than that your whole navy will be obliterated by UK and France. Keep it together.. Once you have like 250-280 ships you should be safe to split your fleet if you need to.. But only if you have Naval Doctrine fully researched.

Naval Doctrine is absolutely massive, i suggest having one research slot dedicated solely to it. You want the left side and bottom of Fleet in Being ASAP.

In SP I built 3 CV II by 1940 and completely destroyed the Royal Navy with lots of DD and CL as escorts. Just my 2 cents.
 

mackau

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I found that even as Italy that CV's are so powerful (especially for controlling the Med) that I didn't bother making any other type of ship until I had two carrier groups with 4 CV's each. The Base Strike doctrine means you can end up with CV's that have 150+ planes each.

They melt anything the AI throws at you if you keep a proper eye on them.

Once you have the 2 fleets, you can build super heavy BB. One in each fleet with 4 carriers is death to the AI. They will not stop you.
 
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indika_tates

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It's hard as Italy to fight both french and english fleet at the same time. As other users said you can neutralize enemy carriers with air superiority so one important part of the strategy is going for the M. Saetta asap. You need enough fighters when the war starts.

Oil is usually a problem with Italy. You need a lot for ships, also steel. Sometimes you can declare war on Yugoslavia & Rumania without an allied intervention but it depends on RNG of spanish civil war and if Japan goes early for china and the number of volunteers sent by Germany/Italy and the Soviets to the Spanish civil war. If you achieve it you get a good amount of oil for your navy & a good number of military/civil industries.

The carrier issue as Italy is more about the effort you have to put on it more than it's viability. Having a modern fleet with four 1940 carriers makes the difference because it's great to have it on your navy. But strictly speaking you don't need it if you are going to fight in the mediterranean and then you focus on buildings battleships (fleet in being). Just make sure you have air superiority over the sea zones you are going to fight the RN.

Investing in submarines is not worth it. You only need 5-10 on the atlantic gap and another 5-10 on the mediterranean after you capture Suez & Gibraltar (If I recall correctly enemy trade can pass and the UK is forced to use it to supply Indian ports)
 
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Well I have been toying with idea of having large number of subs, operating in Indian Ocean from East-Africa.

I normally don't make that many subs or none at all because I don't have that many resources to go around. But this alternative strategy could work and it would be fun alternative then building dozens of cruisers, destroyers and odd battleships. Mixing few fast cruiser squadrons besides subs wouldn't be bad idea for raiding.

Problem is that I would need to have control of Suez or Gibraltar (propably Suez) and large army in East Africa (and North Africa) to keep it in Italian hands. But if I don't have control of Suez it can go really wrong.
 

mackau

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I think I played a game as Germany where I had 30 factories building subs and it didn't seem to really impact on the Allies. I covered the planet in them, they'd kill thousands of convoys but have no discernible impact.

If you have the resources it's better to invest in something like Strategic Bombers that can directly annihilate the enemy's IC.