I was wondering if naval mining of trade routes would be an option or perhaps included at some point I know it was used off the coast Norway to cut off steel to Germany.
Naval Mines
- Thread starter DoubleTT
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Mines are a key element of naval strategy and have been one of the biggest causes of ship damage and loss in the last two world wars.
That said, laying and sweeping mines is long, tedious, dirty work that takes a long time to carry out in either direction. For that reason it is unlikely to make it into a strategy game that needs to be fun to play.
That said, laying and sweeping mines is long, tedious, dirty work that takes a long time to carry out in either direction. For that reason it is unlikely to make it into a strategy game that needs to be fun to play.
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Will be made in mods most likely. With new region mechanics in Naval and Air combat it is quite easy to do. And they could use submarine stats, tweaked to balance things out. Mines were removed by minesweepers, small ships. And as Destroyers are already used as a main sub hunters in the game, I guess they could play a role of minesweepers as well.
Mines could be units with small range so that you can only deploy them in coastal regions.
HOI3 for instance has a mod that has mines that work more or less the way I said here.
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As Director well says, while mines are significant (both damaging major warships and accounting for the loss of quite a few smaller ones), it's tricky to get in, in a sense that's 'fun' gameplay wise. I think it's possible, mind, but naval warfare tends to be a bit less of a priority than the other arms of combat, but you never know - if we got a naval-oriented DLC and PDS were able to come up with ideas, it might work. I'm definitely going to try and mod them in, but don't want to promise anything until I know I can deliver.
@Vukodav - if we are modding in mines, I'd mod in smaller ships than destroyers to do the minesweeping work. While some older DDs were modified to sweep mines, the vast majority of the work was carried out by purpose-built minesweepers and multi-function military trawlers, and if we're modding in mines it'd make sense to put these vessels in as well.
I'd personally prefer a minefield to be a 'state' in a region, that's deployed, that then creates the potential for a ship to be damaged or sunk until it's detected and cleared. There would be chances for both enemy and friendly ships to be sunk, but much higher for enemy (more than a few ships were lost in mine friendly fire accidents). Minesweeping patrols around the coast (an automatic mission) would do this work, and then other vessels can try and lay the mines (aircraft/subs/surface vessels) as appropriate. That way it's possible to have both offensive and defensive minefields, hopefully of different densities. Doubt we'll be able to mod it in to this level, but I can hope
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@Vukodav - if we are modding in mines, I'd mod in smaller ships than destroyers to do the minesweeping work. While some older DDs were modified to sweep mines, the vast majority of the work was carried out by purpose-built minesweepers and multi-function military trawlers, and if we're modding in mines it'd make sense to put these vessels in as well.
I'd personally prefer a minefield to be a 'state' in a region, that's deployed, that then creates the potential for a ship to be damaged or sunk until it's detected and cleared. There would be chances for both enemy and friendly ships to be sunk, but much higher for enemy (more than a few ships were lost in mine friendly fire accidents). Minesweeping patrols around the coast (an automatic mission) would do this work, and then other vessels can try and lay the mines (aircraft/subs/surface vessels) as appropriate. That way it's possible to have both offensive and defensive minefields, hopefully of different densities. Doubt we'll be able to mod it in to this level, but I can hope
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I thought about this some days ago. That could be really cool, as it adds another way to prepare for war than just buildings forts & units and I really like planning defenses and stuff !
As Director well says, while mines are significant (both damaging major warships and accounting for the loss of quite a few smaller ones), it's tricky to get in, in a sense that's 'fun' gameplay wise. I think it's possible, mind, but naval warfare tends to be a bit less of a priority than the other arms of combat, but you never know - if we got a naval-oriented DLC and PDS were able to come up with ideas, it might work. I'm definitely going to try and mod them in, but don't want to promise anything until I know I can deliver.
@Vukodav - if we are modding in mines, I'd mod in smaller ships than destroyers to do the minesweeping work. While some older DDs were modified to sweep mines, the vast majority of the work was carried out by purpose-built minesweepers and multi-function military trawlers, and if we're modding in mines it'd make sense to put these vessels in as well.
I'd personally prefer a minefield to be a 'state' in a region, that's deployed, that then creates the potential for a ship to be damaged or sunk until it's detected and cleared. There would be chances for both enemy and friendly ships to be sunk, but much higher for enemy (more than a few ships were lost in mine friendly fire accidents). Minesweeping patrols around the coast (an automatic mission) would do this work, and then other vessels can try and lay the mines (aircraft/subs/surface vessels) as appropriate. That way it's possible to have both offensive and defensive minefields, hopefully of different densities. Doubt we'll be able to mod it in to this level, but I can hope
Sure thing, we can make the mod more detailed and realistic mines and sweepers, but I was talking about the easiest way for maximum gain that every modder can do.
That is just one new unit (naval mine) with already used parameters. Almost anyone can make it and not even wait for the mod - that is why I placed that idea there.
But sure, you are right, more detailed mod could be done and balance is a huge thing here. Mines were cheap and very good at sinking ships, but how do you balance that? More detailed system of naval mines could help. For instance air observation and triggering of mines and so on. There are, as always, many ideas. It is just a question of how deep one wants to go and what he wants to gain from it.
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I think the biggest issue would be teaching the AI not to go near mine-infested waters, and to know which waters were more likely to need avoiding. All depends on what we have to play with though, but no harm in throwing ideas around before then - your ideas are definitely solid, don't get me wrong
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AI is ALWAYS the problemI think the biggest issue would be teaching the AI not to go near mine-infested waters, and to know which waters were more likely to need avoiding. All depends on what we have to play with though, but no harm in throwing ideas around before then - your ideas are definitely solid, don't get me wrong
And mods depend on the game itself. If it captures people's hearts, it will get all the love it needs from the players themselves, no need for expansions to do that. Like HOI2.But if it is like HOI3, tough luck. HOI3 was a good game, and it has a nice modding support, but overall it is a weaker of the two. I just hope that HOI4 will make it not only possible to make great mods but also make players want to make them and improve the game.
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I remember when they attempted to put them into BICE, Wow that was a strange experience having my fleets battle the mines ha ha, On topic perhaps in 4 you can maybe have them hmm as sort of like Partisans? Not on map but perhaps present in places where your fleet is sent or something but it still begs the question how to get the AI to counter them. Maybe as Axe says you have smaller naval units and some benefit the AI will see to build them. Really tough topic to speculate besides the DD's on Naval we haven't seen or been given a lot of details on the streams about sea zones or Naval warfare but bits and pieces.
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Naval mines will tend to break away and disperse if they are not tended regularly. Let the mines have a small cost but have to be renewed by destroyers or submarines every month?
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Aye, the best way I can think of doing it at the moment would be to have both minelaying and minesweeping ships/flotillas. Minesweeping flotillas are set on 'minesweeping' missions in an area, and then sail around finding and clearing mines until sunk or told to do something else. Minelaying flotillas are based somewhere, and have a seazone set as their 'we lay and maintain a minefield here', and then do that until told to do something else. That way there's not a lot of tedious micro unless the minefields have to be moved, or the AI keeps moving its minelaying flotillas around. Then those areas with a minefield would have a chance of hitting ships (which would then have a chance of either sinking or damaging them).
Just random thoughts at this stage though - untested and no idea whether anything like this would be feasible mod-wise in-game.
I agree with vokovdav that mines would make a compelling addition to a mod - likely only for the naval enthusiast die-hards, but still.
Perhaps having minefields offered in discrete steps - density 1, 2, 3 etc would permit mines to cause attrition to ships. As was said above, like partisans.
Perhaps having minefields offered in discrete steps - density 1, 2, 3 etc would permit mines to cause attrition to ships. As was said above, like partisans.
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Maybe it could be somehow abstracted in, like in a certain sea zone if you have some mine layers paroling it gives a chance for an enemy ship to hit a mine, and likewise if the other fleet has minesweepers it could improve the chance that there is no damage taken by mines?
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