Naval invasions - timing and landing sites?

[Commander-DK]

I have been running a few test games as Japan and every time I get some wacky results with naval invasions with regards to timing.

I know all the requirements: transport tech, naval superiority, max no. of divisions, 35 day planning period etc.

My problems are for example:

- If I set 5 divisions to land in 3 provinces side-by-side, the AI will make 1 division land to the right (which is defended by the enemy), set none to land in the middle, and then dump 4 divisions into the empty province on the left?? When my navy has scouted the coast, and I know which provinces are defended by a garrison, why do these things happen again and again?

- And timing is another thing that keeps screwing up. Usually it takes me 8-12 days to sail an invasion force from mainland Japan to the coast near Shanghai. Which means there is no way to surprise them with a Declaration of War and then start the assault on the beaches a few hours later? How are marine landings ever going to be part of the opening move of a war, if it takes the marines weeks to get there?

I just don't understand Paradox's system and it is very frustrating. Any pointers on how to use naval invasions at a specific point and time and not just random locations weeks later would be much appreciated!!

 

[Faradaux]

Why are you invading 3 tiles at once?
It should always be the whole stack to take the port. Any naval invasion that doesn't the port is doomed to not only fail, but to lose all the marines.

The current naval invasion mechanics make it unrealistic to wait offshore for a DoW. Cause then the AI would just park fleets offshore for months while justifying.
Besides, a stack of 6 marines will take Shanghai every single time, the Chinese AI never fortifies their shoreline enough. Land another 6 marines at Guangzhou and then take Beijing after the Chinese divisions start to pull back south. You should win before 1937 end, early 1938 at the latest.

 

[Dalwin]

I have been running a few test games as Japan and every time I get some wacky results with naval invasions with regards to timing.

I know all the requirements: transport tech, naval superiority, max no. of divisions, 35 day planning period etc.

My problems are for example:

- If I set 5 divisions to land in 3 provinces side-by-side, the AI will make 1 division land to the right (which is defended by the enemy), set none to land in the middle, and then dump 4 divisions into the empty province on the left?? When my navy has scouted the coast, and I know which provinces are defended by a garrison, why do these things happen again and again?

- And timing is another thing that keeps screwing up. Usually it takes me 8-12 days to sail an invasion force from mainland Japan to the coast near Shanghai. Which means there is no way to surprise them with a Declaration of War and then start the assault on the beaches a few hours later? How are marine landings ever going to be part of the opening move of a war, if it takes the marines weeks to get there?

I just don't understand Paradox's system and it is very frustrating. Any pointers on how to use naval invasions at a specific point and time and not just random locations weeks later would be much appreciated!!

Actually if you hit three provinces at once the system will send one division to the first objective upon which you clicked and all other units to the last objective clicked. This is a bug. Earlier today I started a thread in the bug report area on this very thing. Please feel free to post into that thread in support.

 

[Commander-DK]

Actually if you hit three provinces at once the system will send one division to the first objective upon which you clicked and all other units to the last objective clicked. This is a bug. Earlier today I started a thread in the bug report area on this very thing. Please feel free to post into that thread in support.

Yup, that is precisely what I am seeing as well. Always 1-4 with nothing for the middle, when I do 3-province landings. Thanks for confirming the bug part.

 

[Commander-DK]

Why are you invading 3 tiles at once?
It should always be the whole stack to take the port. Any naval invasion that doesn't the port is doomed to not only fail, but to lose all the marines.

The current naval invasion mechanics make it unrealistic to wait offshore for a DoW. Cause then the AI would just park fleets offshore for months while justifying.
Besides, a stack of 6 marines will take Shanghai every single time, the Chinese AI never fortifies their shoreline enough. Land another 6 marines at Guangzhou and then take Beijing after the Chinese divisions start to pull back south. You should win before 1937 end, early 1938 at the latest.

Well, in the case of Shanghai there is an airport 2 provinces north, which I like to take out at the same time to quickly end Chinese airpower in the region.

 

[Dalwin]

Yup, that is precisely what I am seeing as well. Always 1-4 with nothing for the middle, when I do 3-province landings. Thanks for confirming the bug part.

In the meantime, you can get one on the flank and the rest on the port, if you are careful to click the port last.

 

[Commander-DK]

In the meantime, you can get one on the flank and the rest on the port, if you are careful to click the port last.

True

Any useful workaround to get the invasion landing to follow more quickly after a DoW?

 

[Dalwin]

You can plan it all before the declaration. The troops will still have to board their ships and sail to the destination but will not have to spend weeks planning. I find this to be quite realistic.

Shortening the time requires launching your invasions from the closest port available.

By the way as Japan when preparing for the war against the Allies, I have my landing forces split into many small armies, 12-15 armies ranging from 2 to 4 divisions each. This is very flexible and not so terribly hard to organize if you keep it all in its own theater and are careful with colors. This allows you to simultaneously launch against a port and both of its flanks while also spreading those forces more evenly, but simply using multiple armies to do so. This can be important if facing real opposition, aka MP games.

Many of those small armies will be merged into other ones after landing. In some cases where they are simply hopping from one small island to another the landing force will simply plan a new invasion starting from the port in which it just landed.

 

[Commander-DK]

Thanks - one more question, please. I have 15 marine divisions and have noticed that I can actually have 2 5-division plans being planned and then start planning a third 5-division invasion but no divisions will be assigned to it. So my question is: do you know if I can start several invasion plans simultaneously - some with and some without assigned divisions - and then just assign divisions to new plans as the first ones are executed? Thus skipping having to wait 35 days from each 10-division landing to the next one?

 

[browd]

Pretty sure the required invasion planning time doesn't start to run until you assign units to the plan.

 

[Zwirbaum]

Pretty sure the required invasion planning time doesn't start to run until you assign units to the plan.

Not true.

 

[Dalwin]

Thanks - one more question, please. I have 15 marine divisions and have noticed that I can actually have 2 5-division plans being planned and then start planning a third 5-division invasion but no divisions will be assigned to it. So my question is: do you know if I can start several invasion plans simultaneously - some with and some without assigned divisions - and then just assign divisions to new plans as the first ones are executed? Thus skipping having to wait 35 days from each 10-division landing to the next one?

My advice as Japan if wanting to make a major push south is to research the second amphibious tech at least a year early. 10 divisions in entirely inadequate but 50 is more than enough.

I do not know about planning with no units. I think that would have to not work since the time required depends on the number of units. It is 7 days per division at the lowest tech level. It is a logical break to have that work for zero divisions and not at the same time increase what is needed by 7 days for each new unit as it is added.

On a slightly related note, planning an invasion does reserve the convoys for the task, but if you are short on convoys your invasions will still make progress toward planning time. I do not recommend doing this on purpose, however, since zeroing out your convoys has dire consequences for your imports and your economy.

 

[Zwirbaum]

My advice as Japan if wanting to make a major push south is to research the second amphibious tech at least a year early. 10 divisions in entirely inadequate but 50 is more than enough.

I do not know about planning with no units. I think that would have to not work since the time required depends on the number of units. It is 7 days per division at the lowest tech level. It is a logical break to have that work for zero divisions and not at the same time increase what is needed by 7 days for each new unit as it is added.

On a slightly related note, planning an invasion does reserve the convoys for the task, but if you are short on convoys your invasions will still make progress toward planning time. I do not recommend doing this on purpose, however, since zeroing out your convoys has dire consequences for your imports and your economy.

When you create naval invasion (even with no units) it starts accumulating 'time'. Each day accumulates +1 day. When you will attach after 3 days to this naval invasion one division it will already be 3/7 days planned. 14 days later if you would attach additional two divisions it will be at 17/21, instead of 7/21.

That's why there is no reason to not have what I call naval invasions 'HQ' with ghost naval invasions drawn in each one of your ports. (Especially since you can edit both the target of naval invasion AND the starting port of it).

There is a lot more that you can do with NI's.

 

[Commander-DK]

Thanks, I will have to experiment some more I hear

 

[redrum68]

For nations like Japan that have many ports, I find it best to use 1-2 division invasions that target just a single province given the bug around targeting multiple provinces. This also makes it so the time to plan the invasion is only 7 or 14 days rather than using many divisions as each additional division adds 7 days (5 divisions takes 35 days, etc).

Against the AI it is also usually better to land on the province next to the port since they tend to only garrison the port provinces and then immediately attack the port after you land as you avoid the amphibious attack negative modifier (no longer need to make as many marine divisions). You just need to make sure to land enough troops to quickly win so you don't get hammered by being out of supply (this obviously doesn't work for single island provinces).

It is also recommended to try and set fleets to sit in the specific sea zones you are going to invade to you can see how many enemies are there and get the bombardment bonus when you attack.

The last thing which I consider a somewhat broken mechanic is you can charge up planning bonus on a regular front before assigning divisions to a naval invasion to get the attack planning bonus. Attack planning bonus as a whole really needs completely reworked.

 

[donagel]

Thanks - one more question, please. I have 15 marine divisions and have noticed that I can actually have 2 5-division plans being planned and then start planning a third 5-division invasion but no divisions will be assigned to it. So my question is: do you know if I can start several invasion plans simultaneously - some with and some without assigned divisions - and then just assign divisions to new plans as the first ones are executed? Thus skipping having to wait 35 days from each 10-division landing to the next one?

Yes, you can make multiple invasion plans. If you plan one, but cannot assign troops, its likely because you have reached your invasion limit(as controled by the Ambphious Tech on the bottom of the naval screen) If you cannot create an invasion at all, it is likely becasue you don;t have neough convoys.