So i'm a returning player and i'm just wondering, with the naval designer system from man the guns is there a "right" way to build ships, or is it pretty much go crazy anything with in reason would work?
Naval designer question.
- Thread starter Lupis Volk
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With MtG, there is a ship design system and many new navy techs. With all that you can build a CL three times more powerful than a CL without MtG.
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The old System from Beginning was Shit and Navy unintersting. Now the Navy is very interesting. The same System will come for Airforce and Army!
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There's definitely a naval meta, at least for multiplayer. In single player, just about any combination of ship designs will work if your navy is bigger than your enemy's.
If you're looking for more specific naval advice, I'd advise looking up multiplayer naval guides from Man the Guns and La Resistance on YouTube. Generally speaking, for strike forces people who are min-maxing either spam screens (CL+DD) and don't build any capitals at all, or they build a combination of CA with full light batteries and destroyers with only the basic gun and nothing else. Some people like to put a torpedo launcher on their destroyers to make them better at sinking capitals, but it makes them cost more so it's a trade-off for if you value more ships or better ships. Battlecruisers, Battleships, and Aircraft Carriers are generally never built in an optimal playthrough unless your country has one in its starting production queue that is almost finished. They're too expensive, too slow, and magnets for enemy fire and naval bombers.
Some general naval tips:
1) Make sure you have a 3:1 ratio of screens to capitals and a 1:1 ratio of capital ships to carriers, otherwise torpedoes can get through your screen and target ships in the row behind them.
2) Only send strike force/patrols out when you have friendly air cover, naval bombers destroy any navy. Conversely, naval bombers are the cheapest way to destroy an enemy navy.
3) Mines are really broken too (though banned in MP), if you put a fleet of submarines with mine-laying tubes set to "do not engage" they will eventually lay enough mines to cripple any enemy fleet in the region and sink many ships. If you see the enemy laying mines, you want to refit some minesweeping gear onto a few destroyers to get rid of them.
4) Surface Visibility / Sub Visibility is the most important defensive stat for ships and submarines respectively, the lower the visibility the less likely they are to be hit by everything. For this reason, Trade Interdiction is the best naval doctrine bar none, for every possible naval build except a carrier heavy strategy which I would not advise. The "concealment expert" admiral trait is the most important trait to have on any admiral as well.
5) Sub 3 and Sub 4 are broken. If you research them ahead of time and then set them to "always engage" they will sink enemy patrol/escort fleets as well as convoys at an incredibly high rate(absent enemy naval bombers). Snorkels are great for reducing sub detection and radar is great for detecting more convoys, take your pick as to which you value more, but be sure to put one of them on all your advanced submarines.
6) The only two naval design companies to consider are the coastal defense designer and the raiding fleet designer, if your country has either one. Coastal defense designer makes it way cheaper to produce ships, allowing you to expand your navy faster than other options. If you have the industry to support it or just prefer to have quality over quantity, the Raiding Fleet designer is the next best option, reducing the visibility and increasing the speed of every ship researched with it, making your ships more likely to dodge incoming fire and torpedoes. No one builds carriers and allied naval bases are always within range of important naval theaters, so the range bonus/penalty from Pacific Fleet/Coastal Defense designers are both irrelevant. The Atlantic Fleet Designer looks decent on paper but a firepower and armor bonus is not nearly as relevant as visibility/speed bonuses or general cost reductions.
That's about all I have. There are a lot of naval threads on these forums, and some people have opinions that differ from mine, so be sure to check them out if you want to learn more about naval strategy in the game.
EDIT: As @Harin pointed out the correct screen to capital ratio is 3 to 1, not 4 to 1, so I fixed my post
If you're looking for more specific naval advice, I'd advise looking up multiplayer naval guides from Man the Guns and La Resistance on YouTube. Generally speaking, for strike forces people who are min-maxing either spam screens (CL+DD) and don't build any capitals at all, or they build a combination of CA with full light batteries and destroyers with only the basic gun and nothing else. Some people like to put a torpedo launcher on their destroyers to make them better at sinking capitals, but it makes them cost more so it's a trade-off for if you value more ships or better ships. Battlecruisers, Battleships, and Aircraft Carriers are generally never built in an optimal playthrough unless your country has one in its starting production queue that is almost finished. They're too expensive, too slow, and magnets for enemy fire and naval bombers.
Some general naval tips:
1) Make sure you have a 3:1 ratio of screens to capitals and a 1:1 ratio of capital ships to carriers, otherwise torpedoes can get through your screen and target ships in the row behind them.
2) Only send strike force/patrols out when you have friendly air cover, naval bombers destroy any navy. Conversely, naval bombers are the cheapest way to destroy an enemy navy.
3) Mines are really broken too (though banned in MP), if you put a fleet of submarines with mine-laying tubes set to "do not engage" they will eventually lay enough mines to cripple any enemy fleet in the region and sink many ships. If you see the enemy laying mines, you want to refit some minesweeping gear onto a few destroyers to get rid of them.
4) Surface Visibility / Sub Visibility is the most important defensive stat for ships and submarines respectively, the lower the visibility the less likely they are to be hit by everything. For this reason, Trade Interdiction is the best naval doctrine bar none, for every possible naval build except a carrier heavy strategy which I would not advise. The "concealment expert" admiral trait is the most important trait to have on any admiral as well.
5) Sub 3 and Sub 4 are broken. If you research them ahead of time and then set them to "always engage" they will sink enemy patrol/escort fleets as well as convoys at an incredibly high rate(absent enemy naval bombers). Snorkels are great for reducing sub detection and radar is great for detecting more convoys, take your pick as to which you value more, but be sure to put one of them on all your advanced submarines.
6) The only two naval design companies to consider are the coastal defense designer and the raiding fleet designer, if your country has either one. Coastal defense designer makes it way cheaper to produce ships, allowing you to expand your navy faster than other options. If you have the industry to support it or just prefer to have quality over quantity, the Raiding Fleet designer is the next best option, reducing the visibility and increasing the speed of every ship researched with it, making your ships more likely to dodge incoming fire and torpedoes. No one builds carriers and allied naval bases are always within range of important naval theaters, so the range bonus/penalty from Pacific Fleet/Coastal Defense designers are both irrelevant. The Atlantic Fleet Designer looks decent on paper but a firepower and armor bonus is not nearly as relevant as visibility/speed bonuses or general cost reductions.
That's about all I have. There are a lot of naval threads on these forums, and some people have opinions that differ from mine, so be sure to check them out if you want to learn more about naval strategy in the game.
EDIT: As @Harin pointed out the correct screen to capital ratio is 3 to 1, not 4 to 1, so I fixed my post
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It'd be singleplayer.
The idea was go united center america and join the allies and support them with a decent navy.
The idea was go united center america and join the allies and support them with a decent navy.
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I was under the impression that mines in MP were banned for their effect on performance rather than that they're imbalanced to sweep. Was that mistaken? You don't see sweeping in action in SP since AI barely uses mines, nor sweeps them.
No, you're right. They're banned for performance mostly. Mines aren't imbalanced to sweep in MP, but they are imbalanced in single player because the AI doesn't sweep mines, and getting 1000 mines in the Med/English Channel just makes you autowin the naval war.
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As @blahmaster6k said in post number #4, in single player many naval builds will work. Even so, there are two main points you may want to watch, so that simple game mechanics do not disappoint you.
First, land based air power rules over the navy. If you sail into enemy controlled air, expect losses. Unfortunately, carrier based air is not as potent as its land based cousin. It is always a plus to operate under your own air protection.
Second, understand screening. If you fall below the magic number of screens, your fleet will take heavy losses. The mechanic is three screens per capital and one capital per carrier. The screen ships are CL's and DDs. The capitals are everything else (except subs). So if you have 2 battleships and 2 heavy cruisers (4 capitals) then you need 12 screens to protect them. It is recommended to bring more than 12 to allow for losses and bad positioning. The link to the Wiki, is worth reading and understanding.
@blahmaster6k did a good job spelling out some of the METAs practiced in PVP. Those same METAs are even more effective against the AI, but are rarely necessary, unless you are playing veteran and higher and buffing the AI.
You did not ask about task forces and missions like patrols and strike forces, but if you do not understand how they work together, be sure to ask. It can be frustrating to a new player to see his strike force never engage and wonder why.
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Thanks for pointing this out, I had incorrectly stated in my post that the required ratio was 4:1, not 3:1. Also, FYI your link is broken, I assume you're trying to link to the wiki page on Naval Battles - Screening Efficiency?
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Thank you for pointing out the break in my link! I fixed it now.
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This wiki page has a really good run-down of what all the different naval missions and engagement rules do, take a look at it.
TL;DR:
Patrols spend their time moving around the zones looking for enemy ships, this uses constant fuel so you don't want your large fleets patrolling unless you're the USA.
Strike Forces sit in port until a patrol spots an enemy fleet, then they sail out to join the battle.
Convoy Raiding means the task force will patrol the area but look for convoys to sink rather than enemy combat ships.
Convoy Escorts will patrol assigned zones escorting trade and troop transport convoys and defend them from enemy ships on convoy raiding, there's a ratio of convoy escort efficiency that needs to be met or your escorts might be late to the battle.
Mine-laying task forces will slowly deploy naval mines over time. Mines apply a speed penalty to enemy ships in the region, and will occasionally damage or sink ships that run into them. The number of mines in a region caps at 1000.
Minesweepers will slowly remove enemy naval mines in the assigned area over time. The opposite of mine-laying.
Naval Invasion Support fleets sit in ports that have naval invasion plans drawn from them, and will leave port and escort the divisions protecting from convoy raiders until they reach the destination of the invasion, where they will provide shore bombardment (debuffs enemy division attack and defense by up to 25%).
Exercises: just sends your ships out to sea to train, increasing the experience level of the ships and generating naval experience. Shift+Click this if you just want to get your ships up to the trained level, the fleet will stop exercising when every ship reaches the training exp cap. Exercising gives a ton of naval exp, but if you don't have a lot of fuel it's probably worth doing it just for a little bit until you can afford to make the naval designs you want so you don't run out.
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This aggravates me to no end.
k is the hotkey to exercise. Shift-k will cause air and land to exercise until trained. But does it work for navy? Nope! Shift-click like a pleb.
I don't even do shift-k because that would require either stretching my hand all the way across the keyboard, having to look at the keyboard to find the right shift key with my left hand because you don't have muscle memory typing like that, or taking my right hand off the mouse, which takes more time than just clicking.