Naval Commandos

[unmerged(21069)]

As we approach the 67th anniversary of the Italian raid on Alexandria, I have to note that naval commandos should be put into HOI 3. I know this has been contemplated and nixed before, but I feel that naval commandos, units like the Decima Mas or the American Underwater Demolition teams, would make a neat, useful and historically accurate addition to HOI 3.

I also think that these special forces could be simulated without too much trouble given the new shipbuilding system. Naval Commandos (or maybe minisubs) could be an attachment for submarines which, when built, would NOT alter the submarine's attack values but would enable submarines to launch a "strike on port" mission just like those which are enabled for carriers by attaching aircraft.

What do you all think?

For those of you who don't know what I'm talking about: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raid_on_Alexandria_(1941)

 

[Alexander Seil]

Land warfare fanbois want to manually design the suspensions of their tanks, the propeller heads want to targer each province individually & wannabe admirals want coal modeled as a separate resource

Now, regarding this - at the very least, the method you propose is very awkward (I am very uncomfortable with attaching squads to naval units). In any case, something of this sort should be in the intelligence system, not on the map. On the map, you command army groups, not squads.

 

[unmerged(21069)]

Land warfare fanbois want to manually design the suspensions of their tanks, the propeller heads want to targer each province individually & wannabe admirals want coal modeled as a separate resource

Now, regarding this - at the very least, the method you propose is very awkward (I am very uncomfortable with attaching squads to naval units). In any case, something of this sort should be in the intelligence system, not on the map. On the map, you command army groups, not squads.

Just for the record, I'm not a wannabe admiral, I'm an Italy player and it's really annoying to not have access to one of the best Italian weapons of the war: the Decima Mas.

During the war they sunk 1 British heavy cruiser and 2 British battleships along w/ a myriad of British, Russian and American transports, tankers, and destroyers.

Background: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decima...of_Allied_ships_sunk_or_damaged_by_Decima_Mas

 

[unmerged(45464)]

Small squads or even individual people could sometimes have a large impact on the war, but like it or not there is no way of having such small units in a game of this scope. As Alexander says, it's probably better to have a sabotage ship mission in the spy/intelligence section, not a perfect solution, but it will have to be enough...

 

[Alexander Seil]

They could, in principle, simply have a "special ops" mission accessible for submarine groups. You pay money upfront, sub sails to target and attempts a sabotage mission.

 

[unmerged(105989)]

They could, in principle, simply have a "special ops" mission accessible for submarine groups. You pay money upfront, sub sails to target and attempts a sabotage mission.

True, however I kinda like stefano's idea of attaching a "brigade" to the subs. UDW could even be its own tech, or at least benefit from certain naval or land doctrines (i.e. infiltration doctrine +10 UDW)

 

[Tyson_48]

I would also support this as an special ops in int.-actions.
It could be either a historical event or individual doctrine to research wich gives than a bonus on the sabotage mission.

 

[TheLand]

Commando units of various nations did quite a lot of exceptional things during the War.

It is very difficult to manage them in a game like HOI. For instance, the Italian frogmen managed to damage two battleships - but a human player seeing the chance to build frogmen units would spam out dozens of them and sink the entire RN in harbour - not very realistic, not very good game design either.

Equally the British managed to blow up the St Nazaire docks in a commando raid - but given a chance the player will blow up ever dock in Western Europe using commandos. Same problem.

So the best solution is not to try to model these exceptional small-unit actions, and to concentrate on a good grand strategy game.

 

[coreymas]

As we approach the 67th anniversary of the Italian raid on Alexandria, I have to note that naval commandos should be put into HOI 3. I know this has been contemplated and nixed before, but I feel that naval commandos, units like the Decima Mas or the American Underwater Demolition teams, would make a neat, useful and historically accurate addition to HOI 3.

I also think that these special forces could be simulated without too much trouble given the new shipbuilding system. Naval Commandos (or maybe minisubs) could be an attachment for submarines which, when built, would NOT alter the submarine's attack values but would enable submarines to launch a "strike on port" mission just like those which are enabled for carriers by attaching aircraft.

What do you all think?

For those of you who don't know what I'm talking about: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raid_on_Alexandria_(1941)

I highly doubt you will get your wish for an attachment to any ship

From the #10 Dev Diary

We have also scraped the naval attachment system all together and instead we have defined each individual technology to be upgradeable or not (surprisingly this is also fully modable). For ships it means you can partially upgrade old ships. If you build a ship its main gun armament is fixed for all time, however its anti-aircraft batteries are very much upgradeable. We feel this system sets up the right blend of newer ships being better than older ships without the old ships simply being useless.

 

[bz249]

Just for the record, I'm not a wannabe admiral, I'm an Italy player and it's really annoying to not have access to one of the best Italian weapons of the war: the Decima Mas.

During the war they sunk 1 British heavy cruiser and 2 British battleships along w/ a myriad of British, Russian and American transports, tankers, and destroyers.

Background: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decima...of_Allied_ships_sunk_or_damaged_by_Decima_Mas

Well according to my knowledge, the British lost the following BBs and BCs

Royal Oak (German sub U-47 in port)
Barham (German sub U-331 in the Med sea)
Prince of Wales (Japanese land based TAC planes)

Hood (German battleship Bismarck)
Repulse (Japanese land based TAC planes)

no Italian commando raids... they were able to heavily damage two battleships at Alexandria, but those were repaired and joined the war later

 

[TheLand]

no Italian commando raids... they were able to heavily damage two battleships at Alexandria, but those were repaired and joined the war later

"Sink" isn't a precise term, to be fair to the OP. If QE and Valiant had been lying on the bottom at Alexandria harbour, they would probably count as "sunk", but would probably not have been any more difficult to refloat, repair and refit.

Ditto, most of the American battleships "sunk" at Pearl Harbour only "sank" 10 feet or so and were readily salvaged.

 

[unmerged(52476)]

A commando raid needs planning (time and cost) and a suitable target (not every possible target is simultaneously a suitable target).

Commandos represented in some way as units on the map do ignore both of those points, as you can use them to attack all the time, everything you wish. therefore, I think this is not a good idea.

On the other hand, I would love to see commandos represented in the espionage part of the game. You allocate some money (continuously), and from time to time the game automatically conducts commando missions.

You may choose a target area to focus on, e.g. naval, infrastructure, or for a lower success rate even more specific targets (a single ship, a land fort in a specific province etc.). The success chance is based on the amount of money you spend, your and your targets de- and encryption techs etc.

 

[Bullfrog]

There are expanded missions in the intel section, as we heard about Govts in Exile and resistance movements and such. I suspect that the intel options will include a few new missions, perhaps pertaining to commando operations.

 

[aaaaburnHOI]

True, however I kinda like stefano's idea of attaching a "brigade" to the subs. UDW could even be its own tech, or at least benefit from certain naval or land doctrines (i.e. infiltration doctrine +10 UDW)

The reality is that special forces rarely did missions in anything close to a brigade size. I love SpecWar stuff too and it does provide an element of...well ...special stuff, but this is a strategic game. Small unit tactics dont fit the theme.

Now a special mission in the new intel section... AWESOME addition.