Naval Cap Useless Now?

[Nussor]

Naval Cap was pretty balanced and useful during before Niven. I really the buff to ship tech, but a lot of things got built around Naval Cap that are now entirely pointless. The only current application is The Federation, which is broken in its own right atm as you can easily get two times the power of your own empire by abusing the free upkeep. This wasn't as broken when you'd actually build to fleet cap as before.

 

[SirAlexius]

What's wrong with naval capacity now?

 

[TheGrouch91]

I am sorry but you're post makes no sense. It would be helpful if you would rephrase your actual problem in more detail.

The only problem I have (i think) understood is that you apparently rarely build up to your capacity and therefore don't need naval cap increases. Which leads me to believe that:

a) You are not very experienced with he current version yet and struggle with the economy so you are unable to build enough ships
b) You mostly play peacefully or defensively and therefore don't build many ships or just use the federation fleets that you mentioned

If I am totally wrong feel free to correct me.

Anyway. Personally I like to "sim city" quite a bit and like to play the economy game. So naval cap really only becomes a problem in the midgame. However I am right now playing as an aggressive empire and actually have to invest into bases and buildings to get the cap up constantly.

 

[Slynx]

nothing changed with naval cap in 2.2
you were able to go over the cap. and even supposed to during the early game (sometimes it's good to go up to 5 times over the cap)
only be the end game you had slight problems if you were over the cap cuz upkeep was a bit harsh. but even then there were edicts to temporary increase it(great for situations when you are at war)

I assume that it's the same misunderstanding that with empire cap (iirc it's called sprawl in 2.2.2+)
because Paradox called it "cap" it doesn't mean you can go over it. and in most cases you must go over it. ​

 

[Dinkelman]

I think you'll notice that there are more layers to the economy now. As you learn to manage it, first you'll learn to balance all the resources. First after you've done that will you need to try to maximize the fleet by seeing how much alloy production you can get away with. Then you'll find that fleet cap becomes a limiting factor too, and you will need to start building anchorages, and soldier jobs, and find a balance between all of that. As you learn more, you find more ways to optimize, and fleet cap does become relevant with more well developed empires.

 

[bobucles]

It was a lot easier to hit your naval cap before. It's a lot harder now. Ships are a lot more expensive than before and that means upkeep doesn't play as large a role in sinking your economy anymore.

 

[TheGrouch91]

It was a lot easier to hit your naval cap before. It's a lot harder now. Ships are a lot more expensive than before and that means upkeep doesn't play as large a role in sinking your economy anymore.

Yes it was easier. However it is not impossible now. It's just slightly more complex. And the way this argument is worded makes me think that people just don't know how to prioritize their economy for maximum alloy output.

The title literally says that it is useless. Which is flat out wrong.

 

[Slynx]

It was a lot easier to hit your naval cap before. It's a lot harder now. Ships are a lot more expensive than before and that means upkeep doesn't play as large a role in sinking your economy anymore.

build a better economy then.
I suggest 2 x 20 fleets during the early game. 4 x 100 fleets during the mid game ...and up to 5-10 x 200 fleets by the time of crisis.(minimum, you can have more if you can afford it. cuz ships are not that expensive, but the time to build them is)
it's easily achievable with few allow foundries during the early game. and 1-2 ecumenopolises during the mid-late game (you can even convert your foundries to something else after 1st ecumenopolis

 

[Tacticus101]

I find it more significant. Previously it was easy to get more naval cap from starbases. Now, between needing starbases for trade, piracy suppression and their precious alloy cost, my Naval cap tends to be a lot lower.

The economic system is more complicated, but once i got the hang of it naval capacity became way more of a resource i needed to manage than it has been previously.

 

[AlanC9]

I'm coming around to the idea that piracy suppression starbases are not worth wasting modules on. Better to build anchorages and handle piracy with patrols. Piracy suppression fleets can be re-tasked in wartime, but a starbase just sits there.

As for fleet cap, I get to my cap the same as I always did. Maybe a bit slower, but in the end the limiting factors are the same as they were pre-2.2.

 

[Promethian]

Just the existence of an upgraded starbase is a hard block on piracy in that system. So put your anchorage bases on your trade routes. Two birds with one stone.

 

[Chthon]

It was a lot easier to hit your naval cap before. It's a lot harder now. Ships are a lot more expensive than before and that means upkeep doesn't play as large a role in sinking your economy anymore.

I thought the same thing at first... but now I repeatedly hit and risk exceeding the cap during wars. I mean nothing stops me from exceeding naval cap, but I search for those naval cap increasing techs to the point of prizing military specialists in my society research.

 

[Secret Master]

I still have to think about naval cap.

What makes it different now is that I have to decide whether I want to put fortresses on every planet or just use anchorages. Every fortress I put on a planet is one less nice building I can use. And for some planets, a fortress is a waste from a defensive standpoint: those defense armies won't ever fight. And if the Unbidden are in play, those fortresses don't defend your planets from them anyway.

On the other hand, starbases are a limited commodity. Starbases can cover trade routes, collect trade while your own ships patrol, or just build ships, so they have other jobs to perform.