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Naval build up strategy for Japan
- Thread starter mdw1985
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Japan probably have some very good national focus for their navy, dockyards and nice bonuses.
I would probably focus as much as possible to research my naval doctrine (Base strike). To defeat USA you need to play extremely aggressive so that they can not make to much use of their massive industry so you need an navy that can perform aggressive operations well.
I would probably focus as much as possible to research my naval doctrine (Base strike). To defeat USA you need to play extremely aggressive so that they can not make to much use of their massive industry so you need an navy that can perform aggressive operations well.
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From what i've seen, you can at least put up one carrier every 9 months with 6 dockyards, which makes about 6 carriers till pearl harbour (1941), if you keep the same efficiency. I hope, that they got good focusses for japan, where taking indonesia with it's oil might be doable around 1937/1938...
1. Build civilian factories --> for trading more oil
2. Build naval dockyards --> for more convoys
3. Build more carriers
2. Build naval dockyards --> for more convoys
3. Build more carriers
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Didn't japan rely a lot on other countries like GB for their shipbuilding? Or was this earlier?
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Won't it mostly depend on how different the War for China is this time? In HOI3 it was too easy to just build Marines with Japan and a min time victory in China (to fully anex them in 1937 by changing war goal) leaves you with all non US ports in the Pacific out to the Indian Ocean in JAP control along with puppeted Aus and NZ. Your old carrier task force supports the army taking India by again port hopping which secures your oil indefinitely against trade interdiction. The home front is just building up two modern carrier task groups to opperate out of Hawaii and keep the Americans bottled up on the West Coast once you decide to 'go west'.
Without tying up enough of the army and forcing the player to build a diverse army because of the trivial land forces they face you can over focus your tech and production making them invincible in the pacific.
Without tying up enough of the army and forcing the player to build a diverse army because of the trivial land forces they face you can over focus your tech and production making them invincible in the pacific.
That was earlier. The IJN Kongo was built in the UK just prior to WW1 (commissioned in 1913). The other 3 of the class were built in Japan.
Japan did relya lot on GB to build their ships before WW2, Admiral Togo's famous flagship during the battle of Tsushima, the Mikasa was built by Vickers. The Kongo class was designed by a Btitish naval architect and Kongo itself was built in Britain, with the others built by Japanese shipyards. I believe that during WW2 all their ships were built in Japanese shipyards. Japan also relied on British technical help in developing aircraft carriers and their aircrafts. The Sempill mission in the 1920s was legitimately and illegally passing technical data on British carrier development to the Japanese.
The last time it was the lead ship of the Kongō class battlecruiser, and that's because the disparity in design theory that UK helped Japan getting into modern (post-Dreadnought) designs, Japan had no problem building the second and finding domestic civilian contractors for the third and fourth.
The thing with Japan is that you need pretty much everything...
1. Carriers to take on the west and project power
2. Screens to protect the above
3. Merchant shipping (Japan started the war already at a deficit..)
4. Single engine airplanes (fighters and naval bombers)
5. Marines
6. Transports for marines
Oh yeah...and a decent land force.
I think a Japan strategy that doesn't mess around in China and is friendly with USSR could be interesting. You still would want to ally with Germany to grab all of the UK's holding and the Philippines. Try to get Australia and New Zealand and then fight the US to a stand still. If the war is going well enough, maybe even go for India.
1. Carriers to take on the west and project power
2. Screens to protect the above
3. Merchant shipping (Japan started the war already at a deficit..)
4. Single engine airplanes (fighters and naval bombers)
5. Marines
6. Transports for marines
Oh yeah...and a decent land force.
I think a Japan strategy that doesn't mess around in China and is friendly with USSR could be interesting. You still would want to ally with Germany to grab all of the UK's holding and the Philippines. Try to get Australia and New Zealand and then fight the US to a stand still. If the war is going well enough, maybe even go for India.
Japan had profited greatly from supplying ships during WW1 and immediately after, but the Depression hit their shipping hard. By 1927, Japanese indigenous production had gone from 610,000 tons in 1922 to 40,000 in 1927. After that, they started offering subsidies to shippers to scrap old ships and build new ones.
The program was a massive success. The new ships had to meet speed and capacity requirements to qualify for subsidies. They later added military requirements like being able to refuel warships, blackout capacity, highspeed pumps...
By 1937, Japan was producing twice as many (merchant) ships as the US. They had an annual civilian construction capacity of 900,000 tons. The Navy had their own shipyards in addition to these and they also contracted out a lot of naval construction to the civilian shipyards. They were self sufficient in naval construction by the end of the 1920's. (They should start out with more than 10 dockyards as only Britain had more than Japan at game start. )
The Japanese merchant marine was also a lot faster and newer. 60% were less than 20 years old. 70% of Japanese merchant ships could go 12 knots or faster while only 25% of US boats could.
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Keep in mind that a lot of dockyards can be converted by national focus and or ordering dockyards constructed. All one has to do is watch the World War Wednesday videos to see the change happen over just two and a half years, especially with Great Britain.
Ten dockyards don't remain at that number for long.
Ten dockyards don't remain at that number for long.
Definitely not in my game. Plan on pure naval supremacy. From the China sea to the Hawaiian islands. With that secure, Operation Kalifornia will take affect
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Yep! Leaving china and ussr aside is an option i've been thinking of a lot. Indonesia, siam and singapur on the other side...
Hopefully there will be the ability to not get bogged down in China and instead have the Chinese back down and give them land like in the Mukden Incident. Japan didn't want to fully conquer China when the war started, but tly had to because Chiang Kai-Shek didn't want to back down.
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I think a generally good strategy would be to build as strong a navy as you can initially, jump on Southeast Asia using that navy before going against USA, and build shipyards there (and in China). That would usually be enough for a decent naval production system to match the rest of the world.
This is a good idea! I think, my navy will ve the strong arm of my forces, too, and i'll probably mainly rely on cvs with ca, cl and dd escorts. Indonesia and Indochina will deliver the oil and rubber i need and i'll strongly rely on concentrated industry in my homeland, since i can wipe out the dangers of bombardment probably. The problem is, what stance china will take. If they join the allies, there might be a huge problem...
The toughest thing for Japan is resources/factories and maintaining a large Empire that stretches from the mainland to China and beyond.
As Japan your safest bet agains the USA is a large capable Navy. As players we have the benefit of hindsight, but Japan saw this too. By investing heavily in carrier and aircraft technology that will give the edge Japan needs to keep the American's at bay.
- Build lots of smaller carriers, I am thinking Tier I or Tier II.
- Retrofit and build as much as possible.
- Small but efficient land force.
- Land focus should probably be aimed more at Infantry (and/or Marines), with a small to zero focus into armor.
By building many Tier I and/or Tier II you will gain a build speed bonus by not switching to something more advanced. Additionally you will also have an edge when you start getting experience from combat and can otherwise improve these older designs. By having many older models it will allow Japan to be more spread out. As opposed to having larger fleet carriers all focused in one area. Expanding the navy should be paramount. I would have to expand the dockyards to about 20, have two sets of carriers being built as quickly as possible (6 months or less) and additional screening ships (cruisers, destroyers, etc). It may be good to invest 1 or 2 dockyards into Sub's (depending on "how" useful they are) for naval interdiction purposes. Unfortunately probably no new battleships.
Due to the large amount of island chains, you are going to want to invest heavily into an airforce to compliment Infantry/Marines. Armored warfare will be secondary and probably a focus for much later in the war. The island chains are a strength and weakness. You can [probably] gain high defensive bonuses and by focusing on infantry/airforce make it a daunting task. But at the same time being spread out can seperate armies. Having a decent airforce stationed at every island chain and good size garrison of infantry/marines will help ensure the defense of these islands will cost an enemy a lot of resources to take it. In addition to a land based airforce, being able to have many smaller carriers allows you to be more mobile with aircraft and hunt enemy ships that would aid in the invasion force.
The USA has a huge industrial capacity, but it will take time after Pearl Harbor for the USA to get into full swing for war production. Japan NEEDS to be prepared to take on this beast in the Naval arena, and they have about a year after Pearl Harbor to do so before the American factories and dockyards start churning out.
After the Hawaiian islands, and Alaska falls. Japan will be hard pressed to make a move on the mainland USA and Canada. By this point Japan will have a sizeable industry and military built, but as a result of over-extension may find itself vulnerable pressing further. Realistically I would sue for Peace with the USA depending on how Germany is doing with the War in Europe, if they are doing well then invading the US/Canada may make sense. If they are in a stalemate with the UK or start suffering due to a "D-Day" type invasion of France, Japan will have to start a large interdiction campaign against the US. Focusing primarily on Panama and any South American Allies.
China (and eventually the USSR) will be an issue. Japan should be able to annex and defend China, especially in it's mountainous terrain from most advances. But depending on the USSR's stance during the war if they decided to make a move it could break those defensive lines (depending on their commitment).
My 2 cents....
As Japan your safest bet agains the USA is a large capable Navy. As players we have the benefit of hindsight, but Japan saw this too. By investing heavily in carrier and aircraft technology that will give the edge Japan needs to keep the American's at bay.
- Build lots of smaller carriers, I am thinking Tier I or Tier II.
- Retrofit and build as much as possible.
- Small but efficient land force.
- Land focus should probably be aimed more at Infantry (and/or Marines), with a small to zero focus into armor.
By building many Tier I and/or Tier II you will gain a build speed bonus by not switching to something more advanced. Additionally you will also have an edge when you start getting experience from combat and can otherwise improve these older designs. By having many older models it will allow Japan to be more spread out. As opposed to having larger fleet carriers all focused in one area. Expanding the navy should be paramount. I would have to expand the dockyards to about 20, have two sets of carriers being built as quickly as possible (6 months or less) and additional screening ships (cruisers, destroyers, etc). It may be good to invest 1 or 2 dockyards into Sub's (depending on "how" useful they are) for naval interdiction purposes. Unfortunately probably no new battleships.
Due to the large amount of island chains, you are going to want to invest heavily into an airforce to compliment Infantry/Marines. Armored warfare will be secondary and probably a focus for much later in the war. The island chains are a strength and weakness. You can [probably] gain high defensive bonuses and by focusing on infantry/airforce make it a daunting task. But at the same time being spread out can seperate armies. Having a decent airforce stationed at every island chain and good size garrison of infantry/marines will help ensure the defense of these islands will cost an enemy a lot of resources to take it. In addition to a land based airforce, being able to have many smaller carriers allows you to be more mobile with aircraft and hunt enemy ships that would aid in the invasion force.
The USA has a huge industrial capacity, but it will take time after Pearl Harbor for the USA to get into full swing for war production. Japan NEEDS to be prepared to take on this beast in the Naval arena, and they have about a year after Pearl Harbor to do so before the American factories and dockyards start churning out.
After the Hawaiian islands, and Alaska falls. Japan will be hard pressed to make a move on the mainland USA and Canada. By this point Japan will have a sizeable industry and military built, but as a result of over-extension may find itself vulnerable pressing further. Realistically I would sue for Peace with the USA depending on how Germany is doing with the War in Europe, if they are doing well then invading the US/Canada may make sense. If they are in a stalemate with the UK or start suffering due to a "D-Day" type invasion of France, Japan will have to start a large interdiction campaign against the US. Focusing primarily on Panama and any South American Allies.
China (and eventually the USSR) will be an issue. Japan should be able to annex and defend China, especially in it's mountainous terrain from most advances. But depending on the USSR's stance during the war if they decided to make a move it could break those defensive lines (depending on their commitment).
My 2 cents....
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