Naval AI is desperate to invade player or simply unintelligent AI decision making..

[in heaven]

Playing as Naxos, i was called into defensive war where England attacked France for Caux.. They desperately tried to invade Naxos ignoring wargoal.

Its stupid how AI prefers to invade player over objective and tries to invade at any cost, even when they lose all their money, deplete their manpowers, deplete their mercenary pool, lose all their armies.. Heres screenshot of all battles that took place in Naxos, all of them were lost by England, and their army was destroyed.

Screenshots:

Spoiler

In current state, they have little army, because all their troops were destroyed in Naxos..

You can see they invaded France abit, but its nowhere near amount of troops that tried to invade me..


Its stupid.. AI should think better before attacking somebody.. Because now they somehow think that they will be able to invade France, yet they starts invading other countries ignoring wargoal..


Whats extremely bad here is that England starts landing their troops on my bigger stack of troops with similar leader.. They get -3 roll, and have less troops.. Its obvious that they will lose that battle...

 

[Yorkie-GBR]

You are an easier target than France if you are Naxos [As in Smaller] , even if you were a landlocked province the AI would still prioritise knocking you out. Hell I even prioritise knocking out the OPM before I turn my full attention on the larger prize.

Secondly, Naval AI.... Not the best thing in EU games, but your welcome to re-write the AI for the game to work proper

 

[Xiahou Mao]

I don't know that that's so much specifically targeting the player...

Giving an example from a game I had as France, I declared war on England to take them off the continent, my ally Naples joins the war while Portugal and Muscovy come in on England's side. I don't give Naples any orders because it doesn't really matter, I can win the war on my own. So what do they do? They get their navy together and sail all the way to the White Sea to try to besiege Muscovy. This goes poorly, as you'd expect, with their troops wiped out. A year or two later, their navy is back at it again, this time launching an amphibious invasion of Portugal.

The wargoal was England, but they were quite content to take on the members on the periphery. Why? I'm not sure, though their landing on Portugal at least made me aware that Castile would give me military access despite being my rival because I was at war with their other rival England, helping pave the way for a full occupation of Portugal. I don't think the naval AI specifically targets players, but there's definitely some weird factors in play to determine which target they go after.

 

[Panzerschiffe]

Not that naval AI matters, but in my Poland game where I'm landlocked, I've joined the HWY with France and I've been attacked by some English troops on my soil. They walked from the West towards me for some stupid reason.

The AI seems bent on going out of its way to do the stupidest things to annoy the player.

 

[in heaven]

You are an easier target than France if you are Naxos [As in Smaller] , even if you were a landlocked province the AI would still prioritise knocking you out. Hell I even prioritise knocking out the OPM before I turn my full attention on the larger prize.

Secondly, Naval AI.... Not the best thing in EU games, but your welcome to re-write the AI for the game to work proper

Easier target? But im not that easy target because his sent armies are smaller than my whole army, so he still cant just simply land on me.. And this war was going for ages, we already have +25 warscore for holding Caux, is that really a good reason, just because im weaker? I dont think so..

 

[Yorkie-GBR]

Easier target? But im not that easy target because his sent armies are smaller than my whole army, so he still cant just simply land on me.. And this war was going for ages, we already have +25 warscore for holding Caux, is that really a good reason, just because im weaker? I dont think so..

AFAIK the AI factors your total FL and MP against theirs to determine whether you are easier/weaker. If they are stronger in these area's they will obviously see you as the weaker partner in a war you are in, what better way to get war score if not from the weakest link in the chain?

 

[demoix]

Stupid naval land invasion AI *sigh*

I saw when Venice trying to conquer Cyprus, but fail when everytime spamming only 4-6k army and lost against cyprus

 

[unmerged(484926)]

I've noticed England usually sends all their men to Hungary in the HYW; they're not targeting the player specifically.

 

[HerrStarr]

You are an easier target than France if you are Naxos [As in Smaller] , even if you were a landlocked province the AI would still prioritise knocking you out. Hell I even prioritise knocking out the OPM before I turn my full attention on the larger prize.

Secondly, Naval AI.... Not the best thing in EU games, but your welcome to re-write the AI for the game to work proper

Well... they're not volunteers, we paid to get a fully working product, and this won't happen.
I bought the game and every dlc on d1 so i've spent... 90? 100 euros? For what? a broken game? If they're not able to pay someone to program an AI so they're really close to bankrupt. But i'm pretty sure that this is not the case, they simply treat customers like idiots like EVERY SINGLE softwarehouse is doing today.
And what's the point defending them? They're UNDEFENDABLE. And don't tell me the story "indie publisher bla bla bla" if i'm not able to satisfy customers, i close.

 

[Draecesstra]

Well... they're not volunteers, we paid to get a fully working product, and this won't happen.
I bought the game and every dlc on d1 so i've spent... 90? 100 euros? For what? a broken game? If they're not able to pay someone to program an AI so they're really close to bankrupt. But i'm pretty sure that this is not the case, they simply treat customers like idiots like EVERY SINGLE softwarehouse is doing today.
And what's the point defending them? They're UNDEFENDABLE. And don't tell me the story "indie publisher bla bla bla" if i'm not able to satisfy customers, i close.

So, you wasted 100 Euro on a broken game, still buying everything on day 1, complain on the forums but still buy everything? Sounds like you are satisfied with their product. "broken" is a hard word and doesnt mean "not working flawless".

 

[Yorkie-GBR]

Well... they're not volunteers, we paid to get a fully working product, and this won't happen.
I bought the game and every dlc on d1 so i've spent... 90? 100 euros? For what? a broken game? If they're not able to pay someone to program an AI so they're really close to bankrupt. But i'm pretty sure that this is not the case, they simply treat customers like idiots like EVERY SINGLE softwarehouse is doing today.
And what's the point defending them? They're UNDEFENDABLE. And don't tell me the story "indie publisher bla bla bla" if i'm not able to satisfy customers, i close.

I dont think you know what the definition of "broken" [in this context] is if you are still buying the game, what you wrote is just hypocritical. Secondly AI programing to a Human Standard is almost impossible with the tools we currently have, it is not "Defending them bla bla bla" it is a statement of FACT.

I have played EU since the beginning and I can attest to the development strides in the naval AI. Is it perfect? no. Has it improved? Yes.

 

[Freudia]

Secondly AI programing to a Human Standard is almost impossible with the tools we currently have

Nah. It's doable to program an AI that can function like a human. The bigger issue is the computational power required to run such an AI, which would bring even top-end computers to their knees for a game like this.

Agreed on the rest of your post, though.

 

[kvk]

Whoa! Naxosian! and yeah the ai can be a bit daft sometimes, but it's getting smarter, and we don't want the ai to act like humans, that would mean a terrible ai, doing stupid mistakes and doing stupid stuff, everyone plays differently and if the ai was super pro then i'm sure there would be a lot of complaints.

 

[BarrosRodrigues]

The AI still falls asleep and does not know the basics of this game like handling land/sea attrition and somehow people expect it to do reasonable amphibious invasions? By comparison with handling attrition well doing amphibious invasions that make sense requires a much smarter AI. Given the current state of this games AI either Paradox does not care with the AI, they've hit a brick wall so they can´t improve it in meaningfully way or pretty much no one knows for sure what they are doing which would explain why the AI still falls asleep and consistently ignores simple attach orders.

 

[Draecesstra]

The AI still falls asleep and does not know the basics of this game like handling land/sea attrition and somehow people expect it to do reasonable amphibious invasions? By comparison with handling attrition well doing amphibious invasions that make sense requires a much smarter AI. Given the current state of this games AI either Paradox does not care with the AI, they've hit a brick wall so they can´t improve it in meaningfully way or pretty much no one knows for sure what they are doing which would explain why the AI still falls asleep and consistently ignores simple attach orders.

some might just say, the AI gets better with every patch. Naval is so much better now, the commands for your vassals are a big improvement. im satisfied with WIZ work and expect him to improve it more and fix the bugs. they changed alot with 1.8 for the AI, give the Programmer some time to fix the bugs he just created. if you dont want to wait, deal with it, (like i do and i like the game very much) or just wait at patch 1.7.3. for some months, than get the expansion. for me, i bought AOW with all new DLC's as a package for 22€, played about 200h with it, got "pissed on bugs" a few times, but enyoyed hundreds of hours with good gameplay. Some people should not overreact so hard or should just buy rome 2 for 50 Euro and take a "glance at the great AI"

 

[Azraeil]

I have experienced this phenomena many times allied to France in a defensive war through various playthroughs as Utrecht and Brandenburg. It is certainly quite infuriating, but from perhaps a more perpendicular perspective, somewhat humorous.

I believe, this is symptomatic of a greater AI problem to be frank, and not something that could be easily solved by any developer. If we reverse the situation, a human player would readily sue for peace seeing that it has been pushed off the continent. However the AI won't do this because it obeys the strict rules outlined by opinion modifers ie, 'length of war' for example. On the flipside, I wonder what would happen if a human player were to invade an ally, would AI France be more willing to help since in this circumstance the ally is also AI? Probably equally as unhelpful, but if it were more so, than that would be telling.... Unfortunately the prevalent 'Iron Man Uber Alles' attitude means that save reloading and tag switching oft aren't available to test such behaviours.

 

[BarrosRodrigues]

some might just say, the AI gets better with every patch. Naval is so much better now, the commands for your vassals are a big improvement. im satisfied with WIZ work and expect him to improve it more and fix the bugs. they changed alot with 1.8 for the AI, give the Programmer some time to fix the bugs he just created. if you dont want to wait, deal with it, (like i do and i like the game very much) or just wait at patch 1.7.3. for some months, than get the expansion. for me, i bought AOW with all new DLC's as a package for 22€, played about 200h with it, got "pissed on bugs" a few times, but enyoyed hundreds of hours with good gameplay. Some people should not overreact so hard or should just buy rome 2 for 50 Euro and take a "glance at the great AI"

Well define "so much better" because I don´t see it. FYI the big changes with the naval AI were done ~2 years ago in an expansion for HOI III and adapted to EU IV; having said that that is not even a huge improvement because the AI is obsessed with it and invades whatever/wherever with no strategic thinking whatsoever. For example I saw the Ottoman AI invade my Caribbean possessions (colonies) when I was tearing their homeland apart. The bottom line is this ”improvement” is not really an improvement because of what I just said, it is easy to see the AI consistently doing dumb amphibious ops when in fact it should be defending its territory with whatever it has got. This can be easily seen both in HOI III TFH and in EU IV. The bottom line is that this AI does not know how to play as it is only capable of using brute force with no strategic thinking whatsoever; the only reason why this isn´t more noticeable it’s because of cheats like suffering no naval attrition, not needing troops to garrison colonies, etc., etc.

 

[Draecesstra]

Well define "so much better" because I don´t see it. FYI the big changes with the naval AI were done ~2 years ago in an expansion for HOI III and adapted to EU IV; having said that that is not even a huge improvement because the AI is obsessed with it and invades whatever/wherever with no strategic thinking whatsoever. For example I saw the Ottoman AI invade my Caribbean possessions (colonies) when I was tearing their homeland apart. The bottom line is this ”improvement” is not really an improvement because of what I just said, it is easy to see the AI consistently doing dumb amphibious ops when in fact it should be defending its territory with whatever it has got. This can be easily seen both in HOI III TFH and in EU IV. The bottom line is that this AI does not know how to play as it is only capable of using brute force with no strategic thinking whatsoever; the only reason why this isn´t more noticeable it’s because of cheats like suffering no naval attrition, not needing troops to garrison colonies, etc.

how can you even combine "thinking" and "ai"? an AI can not Think... different people are working on HOI and EU, the AI in Patch 1.0 is very different with the AI in 1.8. Try allying england in patch 1.7.3 and in 1.8., you can see the improvement.

So your point is, "i cant see the improvement, AI sux, i will ignore the changes they did, keep complaining but will still buy anything,while they just copy their stuff "copy&paste" from their other games."

I see Eu4 evolving with every DLC and Patch. Getting better, but not close to flawless.

 

[BarrosRodrigues]

how can you even combine "thinking" and "ai"? an AI can not Think... different people are working on HOI and EU, the AI in Patch 1.0 is very different with the AI in 1.8. Try allying england in patch 1.7.3 and in 1.8., you can see the improvement.

So your point is, "i cant see the improvement, AI sux, i will ignore the changes they did, keep complaining but will still buy anything,while they just copy their stuff "copy&paste" from their other games."

I see Eu4 evolving with every DLC and Patch. Getting better, but not close to flawless.

Lol you really don´t have a clue of what I am talking about do you? I am not talking about the game balance (ex: opinion modifiers that influence alliances, etc.), features and eye candy that comes with each expansion I am talking about how the AI handles all of that (better said how it does not handle it). FYI the latest expansion added lots of features that the player can use but the AI was not taught to use like the sortie, marches, client states, etc. etc. In my book the AI just got dumber (as if that was even possible) but judging by your posts you don´t understand this.

 

[Draecesstra]

Lol you really don´t have a clue of what I am talking about do you? I am not talking about the game balance (ex: opinion modifiers that influence alliances, etc.), features and eye candy that comes with each expansion I am talking about how the AI handles all of that (better said how it does not handle it). FYI the latest expansion added lots of features that the player can use but the AI was not taught to use like the sortie, marches, client states, etc. etc. In my book the AI just got dumber (as if that was even possible) but judging by your posts you don´t understand this.

yes, i have a different view,no need to understand you. ai not building transports and ai building them, is clearly no improvement. try a byzantium start and look at otto navy, maybe you see a difference. if not, we dont understand each other