Can someone with more knowledge in history tell me with nation besides Russia westernized during the time frame of this game?!
Navajo Westernised in 1627!
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Can someone with more knowledge of history tell me which European nation bordered Navajo in the early 1600's? Which one had most of the 13 colonies before then? Obviously in history big peace deals were impossible because war score, and shipping and supply 10000-50000 troops across the world is easier to do at long range than support the growth of a colony?
Cherry picking in favor of NERFING the already ahistorically weak nations is grating. No selective history. If you want to use that angle, use it properly. The fact that there was a nation there in 1627 is every bit as, if not more, ridiculous than them westernizing in the first place regardless of what a Euro-centric sense of "immersion" has to say about it.
I wasn't being sarcastic, it was a real question.
Explorer João Rodrigues Cabrilho discovered San Diego Bay in 1542...
AND if you use EUIV and set it to 1599 you will see NEW MEXICO bordering Navajo. Not sure if Paradox made this up or if it was actually true.
The Spanish had a titular claim to what's now the American Southwest starting not long after La Conquista. How far they actually penetrated into the territory they formally claimed I have no idea, but the way Paradox has things set up that's immaterial -- the moment Spain made the territory theirs, Navajo was free to fully westernize.
And believe me, there is more to westernization than modern weapons. If there was something you could do that modernized just military tech, that would be one thing, but the societal changes involved in true westernization go far beyond that. For that matter it's easy to see relatively industrialized nations in the world today that aren't fully westernized.
And believe me, there is more to westernization than modern weapons. If there was something you could do that modernized just military tech, that would be one thing, but the societal changes involved in true westernization go far beyond that. For that matter it's easy to see relatively industrialized nations in the world today that aren't fully westernized.
Pre westernizing changes, it was far, FAR too rare to see people westernizing. You maybe saw it once in a blue moon.
After the changes, it's actually too common, imo, but you FINALLY see AIs westernizing.
There needs to be a middle ground, ideally, but when AI nations westernize they rarely accomplish things anyway.
After the changes, it's actually too common, imo, but you FINALLY see AIs westernizing.
There needs to be a middle ground, ideally, but when AI nations westernize they rarely accomplish things anyway.
We are on the same boat then.
Westernization is something of mid 19th century not of 1600...
How is it bad now? Nations starting new world or in the East already have no chance of competing with a decent start in Europe.
no one complained westernization was too hard before, people complained it was too boring and repetitive
Portugol had Afrcian Colonies in the 1400's along with spain bordering natives in the late 1400's
Oh look portugal also had a province in indian in 1510, earlier than we have it ingame most of the time
oh look Netherlands had a Japanesse province in 1609
Oh look none of those nations westernized to actual western-par stuff until 1850's
oh look youre wrong, maybe complete-westernization is too early: though I do think every country should have better bonuses to their home tech group when europeans arrive
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Dude go travel to África.
Honestly and go live there. I mean it´s the XXI century they must all be Westernized, right? Right?
No?
Countries don´t change that fast, sorry to tell you. He is right, the current system is absurd and if you think Navajos would have invented the laws of Newton you are wrong.
Cry some more, all these "everything westernizes too fast" people obviously haven't tried to do it themselves. I did it as the Mughal Empire after Portugal took some coastal provinces from that one Hindu country that starts with a V whose name I'll never remember, I finished in the 1670s 1680s, it took the entire rest of the game to catch up to European military standards and did eventually surpass them in tech at the very end.
So even if you see some American or Asian nation with a little tricorn next to their name doesn't mean anything, there likely going to have to spend decades or even hundreds of years to catch up to Europe much less than pose a threat.
Only good thing about doing it in India is you'll eventually have manpower comparable to Russia and France while also having more money than God
So even if you see some American or Asian nation with a little tricorn next to their name doesn't mean anything, there likely going to have to spend decades or even hundreds of years to catch up to Europe much less than pose a threat.
Only good thing about doing it in India is you'll eventually have manpower comparable to Russia and France while also having more money than God
Sure.
Maya, Azetc, Inca, NA tribes, European colonial control of Africa until 1900s , India, Opium War...
This game is chalk-full of unrealistic crap, most of which people don't even mention. And yet we see people complaining about a silly hat on a nation that is and will remain 5+ techs (IE nearly a century behind) for nearly the entire game, if not all of it, and call it immersion breaking as they land 20+ Tercios in India before 1600 and wreck face. It's a joke. Using history only selectively in making arguments in this game is BS, and yet this noodle leg is all that these arguments are trying to stand on lol.
Also, asserting that history couldn't have gone very differently if nations had made different choices is arrogant Eurocentric confirmation bias. This game doesn't model the disease issues in the western hemisphere whatsoever, and it wouldn't be fun if it did. However, without it, and without a nation wiping natives out, is it really that much of a reach that a given ruler deciding he wanted to try to mimic success wouldn't try it? Is that *MORE* ridiculous than shipping 10000-50000 troops and sustaining them in locations you can't even send colonies?
The worst part of this is that the original complaint situation, freaking Navajo going western, will have no material impact on the game whatsoever. The player will still own them up and down with facedesk tactics without batting an eye.
But no. We're going to see complaints about the hat and selective history BS ad nauseum I'm sure.
Keep trying. Maybe one day when you reach a level of basic communication, you'll be able to actually address my points. Until then, sure go ahead and repeatedly post without addressing counter-points and pretend you made some kind of strong point.
Now tell me. In AI hands, do *any* of these nations amount to anything significant in game, regardless of them attempting to westernize? No. So, why are there threads seeking to nerf nations that already fail to amount to anything significant in game in AI hands in 90% of cases or more?
Ive westernized easily as any country in both new and old westernization mechanics
From Pequit to the Commonwealth to the Mughals to the Ottomans
Each one of them take like 20 years to westernize and if you are actually good at the game catching up is really easy since even a 0/0/0 ruler keeps up with the standard progression of tech
uhm people have complained about that and paradox hasnt done anything about it since its too hard to model in Eu3/4's current system
maybe in Eu4 we'll get transports being more expensive the farther away from the capital along with population figures like in Vicky2 so epidemics and more realistic things can happen
This game is about rewriting history, not repeating history. It's also a strategy title, which implies the need to use some. Yes, even if you're in the Western tech group.
I've never said the game needed to nerf the westernization system, i said and think there shouldn't be one at all, it's simply out of the time frame of the game.
Now i don't want to see the entire world painted in red blue yellow and green, an different system is needed, because many of the European countries only control costal ports especially in Asia and did't stomp in to china main land, but that as nothing to do with the fact that a westernization system shouldn't be in the game.
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