Natives need some transport

[TheMeInTeam]

Just as it's ahistorical for natives to field early carracks, it's also ahistorical that they can't even enter the freaking water. Nations like Arawak made their way into the Caribbean, and Meso/South America could reach nearby isles easily.

So, there are two proposals here, either will work:

1) Primitives can build cogs. It's not a perfect fit (even cogs are too strong), but should prevent them from ever being a serious force at sea; they'll always be outgunned. It's a simple fix.

2) DIP tech 1 ship: Canoe. It has no combat strength at all (0 cannons) and a hull strength of 1 (these would sink in Ocean pretty readily), functions as a transport.

This will allow natives a little bit more speed in contact if they so desire it, and meshes a bit better with Mesoamerican pacing and their actual capabilities. It also prevents the problem of doing nothing for 50-70 years in Mesoamerica after passing 5 reforms, since you can get out and explore a bit more readily.

Mesoamerica in its present state is terrible for gameplay (you can wind up passing your 5th reform and spending 1/8 to nearly 1/5 of the game on speed 5 waiting for European contact) and not so great for history. This would go a long way to help that.

 

[elpibeuruguayo]

+1 in canoes

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Now that I think about it, maybe you should give them a single cannon just in case you have combat between canoes. I'm not sure how battles between ships would resolve if neither side could do any damage . Probably morale would decay but it might have odd consequences. A DIP 1 transport with 1 cannon should be good enough.

 

[DubiozaW]

+1 for canoes

Now go make some videos, I'm waiting for FSoJ #28

 

[elpibeuruguayo]

Now that I think about it, maybe you should give them a single cannon just in case you have combat between canoes. I'm not sure how battles between ships would resolve if neither side could do any damage . Probably morale would decay but it might have odd consequences. A DIP 1 transport with 1 cannon should be good enough.

Technically, canoes can not do damage between them. At best those who are mounted in the canoes could shoot arrows and throw stones. Should have 0 canyons and win the battle the side that have more moral, unless you have more canoes.

 

[yerm]

They have cannons before mil 7. They have cannons on early galleys. They can be viewed as boarders and archers, not actual bronze tubes.

 

[elpibeuruguayo]

They have cannons before mil 7. They have cannons on early galleys. They can be viewed as boarders and archers, not actual bronze tubes.

Yes, but if you give cannons, there is the possibility than canoes win agains other european ships, that thing would be WAD.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Technically, canoes can not do damage between them. At best those who are mounted in the canoes could shoot arrows and throw stones. Should have 0 canyons and win the battle the side that have more moral, unless you have more canoes.

I'm not talking from realism, but rather to make sure the game doesn't do something odd. A ship with 1 cannon and 1 hull size could not defeat a single cog, even with dozens of them, so 1 cannon wouldn't be a problem for gameplay while avoiding a situation like "canoe morale chicken" which could potentially have weird outcomes and gobs of ship captures etc.

 

[Llyw olaf]

I'm all for them getting a unique(very weak) transport/trade vessel once you pass all five reforms, if I'm ready I don't want to wait for the europeans, no ships at all is too restrictive at the moment.