Native Policies - Which one is the most effective?

[Cymsdale]

No, not really. From what it sounds like if you go with option 3, you will need to have a military presence which will have the second effect of giving you increased chances of events firing to give you free settlers on top of already faster settler growth.

Also, uprising chances were already low in provinces with low aggressiveness/ferocity.

What I mean is, the reason you would not want to wipe out natives before was because you were hurting the assimilation bonus when it was complete. If option #3 is going to set that assimilation to the lowest possible value no matter what, why would you not just kill the natives under a repression policy?

 

[beckermt]

Really? That is entirely unclear in the game tooltips.

So basically, if you are using option 3, you should wipe out the natives manually because they are going to do nothing but hurt you while they are around.

Aside from costing Sword Mana... yes?

 

[Cymsdale]

Aside from costing Sword Mana... yes?

True, I forgot that had a that cost. I never had a reason to even use the option before because it was pretty bad even if it was free.

 

[heliostellar]

What I mean is, the reason you would not want to wipe out natives before was because you were hurting the assimilation bonus when it was complete. If option #3 is going to set that assimilation to the lowest possible value no matter what, why would you not just kill the natives under a repression policy?

Because if you have Ruthless set then you would naturally be forced to station troops. You would then be automatically eligible for the free +100 settlers event at that point because you have an army there. I don't have the event in front of me, but if you were to wipe out the natives, I'm assuming the event would not fire.

 

[Golladan]

The policy buttons set the three flags for those events when the Cossacks DLC is active, i.e. Native Coexistence sets NF_peacenik.

Ah, so it does. That changes some things.


The Natives Accomodated event doesn't require a unit present if you have the Coexistence policy on. Not like that matters, since you won't get any uprisings in the first place!

A big source of confusion is that the Coexistence policy mentions that it "will increase the chances of assimilating [the natives] into our colonies". Which is completely false. The 3 of the 4 events that can fire based when that policy is taken only deals with aggression and ferocity... And the 4th one is about lowering the amount of natives in the province!

 

[Isaios]

Really? That is entirely unclear in the game tooltips.

So basically, if you are using option 3, you should wipe out the natives manually because they are going to do nothing but hurt you while they are around.

Yeah, that part is massively opaque, I thought it just defaulted to the same as Co-existence, should probably bug them to make that clear with a nice big

Native Assimilation: -100%

Thank you! I was not able to actually see what the policies did from work.

It seems like Trading would be really excellent for long-term growth, since it scales, but requires investing soldiers.
Repression seems good for early settling and getting important colonies off the ground.

Tough call!

Repression is clearly best for things like Sao Tome and the other 0 native areas, and I'd think it would be good for Russia in much of Siberia, as it's got tons of those 500 Native provinces. I don't know, I think if the Trading policy was working that I'd never choose repression. Sure, it'd go slower, but the only long term benefit is the Trade Value and Strategic Trade Good bonuses so I can't really see much point in lowering the available loot

Because if you have Ruthless set then you would naturally be forced to station troops.

You'd be forced to have troops there, OR have dealt with the natives already. So for instance, take an army for a stroll through Siberia and wipe out all the natives at some point where you have tons of Military points and nothing to spend it on.

 

[Subai]

Ok if this no-assimilation-bonus t production while Repression is live is a fact how big is the impact? I really can not estimate the loss with all those parameters like tax income, trade good, average native population etc....can anybody help?

Edit: Wow. For one day I thought I finally got it. But now every second post gets me confused a bit more

 

[Isaios]

Ok if this no-assimilation-bonus t production while Repression is live is a fact how big is the impact? I really can not estimate the loss with all those parameters like tax income, trade good, average native population etc....can anybody help?

You ONLY lose the bonus Goods Produced. It in turn impact that you don't get the bonus to Production Income. You still get Goods Produced from Production Development. In almost all provinces it's a small-ish loss. 4.000 Natives gives as much of a Good in Production as 1 Development. So... not massive, but it does add up.

 

[heliostellar]

You ONLY lose the bonus Goods Produced. It in turn impact that you don't get the bonus to Production Income. You still get Goods Produced from Production Development. In almost all provinces it's a small-ish loss. 4.000 Natives gives as much of a Good in Production as 1 Development. So... not massive, but it does add up.

That's pretty small and will really only matter in a relatively small number of places on the map.

 

[Subai]

You ONLY lose the bonus Goods Produced. It in turn impact that you don't get the bonus to Production Income. You still get Goods Produced from Production Development. In almost all provinces it's a small-ish loss. 4.000 Natives gives as much of a Good in Production as 1 Development. So... not massive, but it does add up.

But with a working trade policy it would get a small buff on top. So then there is again the question whether you should take repression or trade in a normal area like north america in case of what gets you more profit. Faster colonies or better ones. (Why can't we just pick that decision for each region?)
And finally I'm confused about these old event chains one guy mentioned. What's true now? Do they trigger or are they at least supposed to trigger (maybe depending on which policy you take) or are they turned off with Cossacks?

 

[melkor88]

I've just been using the policy which stops them attacking me, as I don't have to worry about keeping my maintenance high which can cost a fortune. And I also do not need to worry about micro management.

 

[Isaios]

That's pretty small and will really only matter in a relatively small number of places on the map.

Definitely. They might have been useful in aggregate in the Americas even with their low Native pops, since they also have such low Production development provinces, but I've no idea how CNs go Policy wise. In Indonesia and west Africa, it isn't useless. In West Africa you consistently get as much or more Goods Produced from Natives as from Development, whereas in Indonesia the Trade Value is so high, and the compound with forwarding trade to Cape/Zanzibar so easy, that I find it worthwhile. Siberia, not so much, same with Australia.

But with a working trade policy it would get a small buff on top. So then there is again the question whether you should take repression or trade in a normal area like north america in case of what gets you more profit. Faster colonies or better ones. (Why can't we just pick that decision for each region?)
And finally I'm confused about these old event chains one guy mentioned. What's true now? Do they trigger or are they at least supposed to trigger (maybe depending on which policy you take) or are they turned off with Cossacks?

Yeah, Goods Produced modifiers work on top of that, so if you've got a few Policies or Ideas giving bonuses to that, you gain more from the Natives. And so very with you on setting it per region/continent

The events are split. Some are stopped when Cossacks is active, whereas others are still active. There're some events that give you more Settlers, some that loses you money and some settlers.

 

[Golladan]

It prevents you from gaining Goods Produced from Assimilated Natives. (It is listed on mouse-over as +0.01 Goods Produced no matter what number of natives there used to be)

That is incorrect. As I said earlier in the thread, the goods produced for assimilated natives does not get applied correctly until the end of the month the colony finishes.

 

[Isaios]

That is incorrect. As I said earlier in the thread, the goods produced for assimilated natives does not get applied correctly until the end of the month the colony finishes.

Huh, that's true. Well that changes the thing again. *scuttles off to edit the former post*

 

[Subai]

That is incorrect. As I said earlier in the thread, the goods produced for assimilated natives does not get applied correctly until the end of the month the colony finishes.

Which means? After all we do get this bonus to production from still living natives with finishing a colony even with repression but only not as high as with the +50% from trade policy?
I really should just roll the dice.

 

[Isaios]

Which means? After all we do get this bonus to production from still living natives with finishing a colony even with repression but only not as high as with the +50% from trade policy?
I really should just roll a dice.

This means that the policies at present do not impact Native Assimilation at all. Any of them. So the only things to take into consideration are no Uprisings versus faster growth.

 

[Subai]

This means that the policies at present do not impact Native Assimilation at all. Any of them. So the only things to take into consideration are no Uprisings versus faster growth.

Given trade policy is fixed and works as intended.

But ok now. I think overall if one has enough troops he should choose repression especially in the beginning.
Afterwards in regions like africa or indonesia one could think of picking trade if that finally is fixed. Would you agree?

 

[Isaios]

Given trade policy is fixed and works as intended.

If Trade Policy was working (and they haven't patched in the last few hours, have they?) then I'd almost certainly take that always. I'd much rather have better colonies than more of them, it's easy enough to lock at least Africa down early.

Not quite sure I understood what you meant there?

 

[Golladan]

And finally I'm confused about these old event chains one guy mentioned. What's true now? Do they trigger or are they at least supposed to trigger (maybe depending on which policy you take) or are they turned off with Cossacks?

The event "Natives Encountering our Colonies" cannot trigger if you have the DLC. The Native Policy system takes over what this event did.

If you have the Repression policy, you can get these events:
Native Raids - Requires at least 5 aggressiveness, 300 natives, no units in province, colony of at least 200. Allows you to increase aggressiveness and ferocity, but reduce number of natives and slightly lower colony size. Or slightly increase aggressiveness and ferocity at the cost of a larger number of settlers.
Native Exploitation - Requires at least 500 natives, colony less than 200 settlers. Lower the amount of natives in the province, and give you a country modifier that lowers settler chance and growth, or pay 40 ducats and get a modifier that increases settler chance and growth.
Colonial Expansion - Requires ruler with MIL 2, and a neighboring province owned by you. Increase the number of settlers in the colony by 200, pay 30 ducats, and get a country modifier that slightly increases settler chance and growth. Or increase the number of settlers in the colony by 50 and get a modifier that lowers colony growth.

If you have the Trading policy, you can get these events:
Lucrative Trade - Requires at least 50% trade efficiency, and a neighboring colony owned by you. Option to gain 50 ducats, or a modifier on the province that gives trade power for some time and 10 ducats, or gain 20 diplo points.
Spread of Disease - Requires less than 200 settlers, and at least 500 natives. Same effect as Native Exploitation above

If you have the Coexistence policy, you can get these events:
Religious Influences (protestants) - If you're Protestant and the province isn't, and less than 4 aggressiveness. Option to increase the aggressiveness and ferocity of the province as well as change the religion of a colony to protestant. Or lower the aggressiveness and ferocity of the province. Useless event if you ask me...
Religious Influences (catholics) - If you're Catholic and the province isn't, and less than 4 aggressiveness. Option to increase the aggressiveness and ferocity of the province as well as change the religion of a colony to catholic. Or lower the aggressiveness and ferocity of the province. Useless event if you ask me...
Spread of Disease - Same as Spread of Disease above.

You can get these events regardless of the policy you pick:
Native Assimilation in [province name] - Requires a unit stationed in the province, and at least 300 natives. Increases the number of settlers by 100.
Accommodation with Natives in [province name] - Requires a unit stationed in the province OR the Coexsistence policy. Also requires at least 300 natives, 1 ferocity, and 1 aggressiveness. Lowers the ferocity of the natives in the province (useless if you're running Coexistence).

 

[DominusNovus]

When I played France I loves the co-existance thing, mainly because of 0 revolts and double native bonuses.

You mean trade, right? Because France's bonuses, combined with the trade bonuses, make it just as safe as co-existance.