Native Divisions are so powerful

[henryjai]

i found that they are one of the most cost effective troops especially fighting in own borders which have no attritions.


their maintanence are cheap as hell yet have very good fighting abilities, they are also the most economic troops as Garrisons, 3-5 in one stack could be something cheap mobile partisan killer.


the downside is that they cost too much manpower and resources , but that isn't a problem when you are playing big guys ....

 

[NikkTheTrick]

I consider having over 10% army native (or having any brigades on them) as a civilized nation to be outright cheating. They are ridiculously overpowered. One can conquer a few uncivs. During the war, they will convert their pops to soldiers, so you end up with a lot of native manpower. Now, just build hordes of natives and kill, kill, kill. I really wish Natives could be disabled for civilized nations.

 

[OHgamer]

As they should be. Some of the best units in the British Army came from the Army of India, and other native/colonial units served with distinction in both world wars.

Similarly the French highly prized their Moroccan and Senegalese divisions, and the Germans built a very effective guerilla army in Tanganyika that kept several British divisions occupied for the entire course of WWI, even mounting an invasion of British Northern Rhodesia.

 

[OHgamer]

I consider having over 10% army native (or having any brigades on them) as a civilized nation to be outright cheating. They are ridiculously overpowered. One can conquer a few uncivs. During the war, they will convert their pops to soldiers, so you end up with a lot of native manpower. Now, just build hordes of natives and kill, kill, kill. I really wish Natives could be disabled for civilized nations.

The better solution would be for the original POPs to be converted back to their former status when annexed, leaving the original soldier POP set in the base POP file (but kept at its size at the time of annexation) as the only soldier POP in the newly acquired provinces. Since the game engine assigns each POP group a unique ID, this would not be a problem to code into the exe.

 

[RoyalArk14]

Silly question: What is the difference(s) between Colonial and Native troops?

 

[Tachikaze]

Silly question: What is the difference(s) between Colonial and Native troops?

IIRC Colonial troops are colonists, i.e. most often white settlers, who have been set up into a semi-regular force of varying quality and equipment standard to keep the colony in line and police the area. Native troops consist of indigenous population recruited to bolster the colonial force (and regulars if need be) and most often assigned to police or secondary duties as they were generally considered unreliable or prone to panic.

Notable exceptions existed of course, progressively more prominent towards WWI and WWII with the French, British and Spanish (in the SCW, look up Regulares) using African and Asian troops to compensate for their lack of manpower in the infantry department. Many native troops were also legendary in their ability to cope with poor supplies and reinforcements under strenuous conditions (e.g. Gurkhas), and were used in some of the more severe environs of the European colonial empires where regular and colonial forces tended to wither from attrition.

 

[Gaius Marius I]

The better solution would be for the original POPs to be converted back to their former status when annexed, leaving the original soldier POP set in the base POP file (but kept at its size at the time of annexation) as the only soldier POP in the newly acquired provinces. Since the game engine assigns each POP group a unique ID, this would not be a problem to code into the exe.

That would really be great for a future patch.

 

[Cinéad IV]

One thing I would say is that native troops should probably cost a bit more to upkeep than they do at present. It's perfectly feasible for a player to maintain a native artillery division at full strength for 10% of the cost of a regular artillery division.

This is maybe something VIP should look at.

 

[henryjai]

One thing I would say is that native troops should probably cost a bit more to upkeep than they do at present. It's perfectly feasible for a player to maintain a native artillery division at full strength for 10% of the cost of a regular artillery division.

This is maybe something VIP should look at.

yes, a native arty is only the cost to maintain a regular division... lol.

 

[Cinéad IV]

I don't think it should be the full cost of a regular artillery division, but I'd say half the cost at the very least would be more reasonable.

 

[Gwalcmai]

One thing I would say is that native troops should probably cost a bit more to upkeep than they do at present. It's perfectly feasible for a player to maintain a native artillery division at full strength for 10% of the cost of a regular artillery division.

This is maybe something VIP should look at.

I took a glance at the game files, and I'm not sure it can be modded. I couldn't find anywhere to do it, at least.

Edit: Although I was looking at the files for vanilla. I don't know if Revolutions exports some more stuff to editable files to expand modding. If it does, that might be one of those things.

 

[henryjai]

I don't think it should be the full cost of a regular artillery division, but I'd say half the cost at the very least would be more reasonable.

the best would be artillery full or 90% cost while the division very cheap.


but this is impossible.

 

[unmerged(8915)]

i build native units usually as dragoons for colonial service. and they rarely fight on the european continent, only when in dire straights a la ww1. but i suppose not all players are as disciplined as me

 

[Gen. Skobelev]

The better solution would be for the original POPs to be converted back to their former status when annexed, leaving the original soldier POP set in the base POP file (but kept at its size at the time of annexation) as the only soldier POP in the newly acquired provinces. Since the game engine assigns each POP group a unique ID, this would not be a problem to code into the exe.

This is certainly something that IMO needs to be addressed if and when Paradox releases the Vicky code for modding. And yes, native troops are ridiculously cost-effective. I think it's a bit gamey to put some brigades to them - native artillery is a killer unit.

 

[Lord of Time]

As they should be. Some of the best units in the British Army came from the Army of India, and other native/colonial units served with distinction in both world wars.

Similarly the French highly prized their Moroccan and Senegalese divisions, and the Germans built a very effective guerilla army in Tanganyika that kept several British divisions occupied for the entire course of WWI, even mounting an invasion of British Northern Rhodesia.

Except when the Senegalese were looting supply depots and raping the French nurses.

I mostly use Native Divisions to keep down revolts in my newly-conquered territories. Sadly, they're usually not much use against other Colonial forces in the area, which always seem to be of the "Regular" variety.

 

[unmerged(16488)]

don't say bad things against senegalese, most of them were very efficient soldiers. Every army has bad elements.

And maybe they should cost a little more. Their wage were lower, of course, but their training was high(in fact, senegalese regiments were kind of professional regiments, while metropolitan france units were made of mostly conscript units). So I see the problem more as a too low price(you don't train that much soldiers all year long without a price) than too high efficiency...

 

[NikkTheTrick]

As they should be. Some of the best units in the British Army came from the Army of India, and other native/colonial units served with distinction in both world wars.

Similarly the French highly prized their Moroccan and Senegalese divisions, and the Germans built a very effective guerilla army in Tanganyika that kept several British divisions occupied for the entire course of WWI, even mounting an invasion of British Northern Rhodesia.

True, but those armies should not be so ridiculously cheap. And, they should not compose most of the army a nation has.

If they cost someting like 60% of regular division (and full price for brigades) to support, I would understand. But not 10%...

 

[Gen. Skobelev]

True, but those armies should not be so ridiculously cheap. And, they should not compose most of the army a nation has.

If they cost someting like 60% of regular division (and full price for brigades) to support, I would understand. But not 10%...

Indeed. That 10% cost is really unbalanced, especially since the unreliability can be negated by good leader and the org/elan penalty won't be bad later when the firepower is everything. Native artillery divisions are overwhelming with their firepower to cost ratio.

 

[Orm]

Silly question: What is the difference(s) between Colonial and Native troops?

Tachikaze gave you the history lesson. In game terms, colonial troops are divisions with an accepted culture (state culture) raised in a colony, while native divisions are divisions with a non-state culture raised in a colony.

 

[Sleepyhead]

That would really be great for a future patch.

Nooooo!!11 I love my natives, they're so pretty.

But seriously, given how much the AI cheats when it comes to divisions they're almost necessary if you want to put up a fight.