Nations who can rule the waves without an actual navy

[LordOfWar16]

Simply going by air wont get you anywhere tho. The enemy will still have naval supremacy since there is no navy present of yours. Sure, you cant upgrade an ship infinitly but you could still do what the USA did for example and turn your battleships, atleast for that theatre, into anti-aircraft platforms like the Iowa later on for example. Besides that planes have of course limited ammunition, so the enemy fleet will be able to disengage before your second wave of attacks and you will have to find them again.

Air Superiority certainly will help, but wont win you the war on its own, especially if the enemy is able to deploy countermeassures. Other than that you shouldnt underestimate the UK's industrial base. Sure, they cant send all they got to the mediteranian, but still, the Italian industry isnt really the greatest either.

Due to its massive coastline it makes alot more sense to put your main focus on the navy since you can build quiet alot of docks and heaively support them in the air. Germany should probably focus on their army and their airforce (mainly tactical bomber, fighter and close air support to suppor their ground troops and defend against enemy bombers) ,Italy on its navy and airforce (naval bombers, fighters, close air support etc) just as Japan which, depending on their expansion plans need a solid army base aswell. That said you can of course play and try tactics as you want, which might of course work.

Atleast the most likely scenario is, that the axis shouldnt even think about pushing into the atlantic with anything but submarines and put their main focus on the land and air first. Once the eastern front is closed they can move their focus (and newly "aquired" resources) more into the navy and airforce production.

A germany that focuses on its navy is possible of course, but i doubt it will benefit you much atleast early on, since i dont see how you could produce enough ships to match the Royal Navy besides the lack of resources early on and high demand for a strong army. Once the soviet steel and oil is aquired and you extended your coastline and industrial base quiet a bit you have all you need to drasticly ramp up naval production as germany, which can easiely outproduce the UK's one alone.

 

[seattle]

Air power isn't just a yes or no binary. If the British are operating far from major Italian airfields, Italy can't surprise British ships. Look at the carrier battles in the pacific, it's all a game of recon, trying to find the enemy ships so that you can attack them. Defending aircraft on the other hand always know where the friendly fleet is so if they can see an attack coming an hour in advance they will hit it at maximum strength at a time of their choosing. While ground based aircraft certainly had value in the Mediterranean, they did not have the ability to deny sea on such a grand scale. Planes can only stay in air for a short while and then they need to fly home.

Or to put it another way, look at the Battle of Britain to see that the defender has advantages in resisting attacking aircraft.

Again, why would I study historical examples if this discussion is about what works in HoI4??
In previous HoIs as Italy I had great success with building an air screen over the Mediterranean and inflict huge attrition on the RN there. Naval bombers who aren't intercepted could effectively reduce the British convoys to 0 and sink a great number of surface combat vessels.
Obviously in real life a one trick pony never works (submarines are a great example). There's a reason why the winners were the ones with the most versatile armed forces. With HoI4's system of huge air regions though, gaining air supremacy over the Mediterranean as Italy should be quite easy. The UK will have to disperse the RAF over a dozen air regions from Homeland Defence to bombing Germany and several other regions all over the globe. Italy though can concentrate her entire air force on a few regions. Combined with a production and tech focus on air force it'll be easy to gain the edge over Britain in this limited area I was refering to.

So yes, air power can be a boolean resp. binary value. If Italy destroys the RAF in this limited area, then RAF_in_Med == false resp. 0

 

[CrasherZZ]

Erm nope, an invasion fleet that lost in the air will not succeed. Unlike regular warships, the assault ships have to head to their designated targets so they can't just maneuver indefinitely, and they're typically slow, making them easier to torpedo or bomb. For the final stage small beach landing craft, it's even worse: enemy aircrafts can strafe them while the escorts can't get close due to shallow water near the landing beach.

True, in principle. My post is based on my actual experiences in HOI3, not on historical events. In HOI3, a surface task force (including BB, CL, and transports) that's not sunk by naval bombers will continue to its destination. Even if it's heavily damaged and lost some ships it can land its marines and return to port. I observed this many times, with my own navy and the AI navy

For a truly major invasion like Overlord however, where the assault could last days, I would not send my invasion task force in without enough air support from CAG or land-based aircraft to protect my ships. That would be possible in the English Channel or Sicily or Italy.

 

[potski]

Again, why would I study historical examples if this discussion is about what works in HoI4??
In previous HoIs as Italy I had great success with building an air screen over the Mediterranean and inflict huge attrition on the RN there...

Since we're talking HOI4 not HOI3, then you don't have IC which you can use to build anything you want. You have a significant number of naval dockyards, and can't build planes with them. If you use your factories to build lots of planes, then you're not building infantry equipment, artillery etc.

Plus you assume that Italy has the resources available to build so many planes. Planes don't need the same resources as infantry equipment nor ships.

So it's not as simple I can have A or I can have B. Gamey shit like disbanding all of your navy to save oil and supplies, and then using all of your IC to build CAS and tanks, is gone.

Plus, I don't get your argument about the large regions. How do you cover the Eastern Med from Italy with fighters? If you don't have air superiority then you suffer attrition of the naval bombers.

Yet, without any DD, especially early in the war, you can't protect your convoys from subs. NAV shouldn't help you much with subs unless you have researched pretty advanced radar. Your convoy fleet gets destroyed and you're struggling to get resources from overseas, nor supply your army in Libya. Now your factories are really inefficient, and you can't easily replace those planes you are losing. And the army in Libya is out of supply...

What you going to do now, when an invasion fleet arrives?