• We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.

Demetrios

Evil Dungeon Master
32 Badges
Apr 22, 2001
5.805
1.356
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris: Galaxy Edition
  • Stellaris
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis III: Collection
  • 500k Club
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Europa Universalis III

I definitely agree that the African Great Lakes region and associated nations should appear in game. But I do have to say that Central Asia being inaccessible to Europeans would have come as a surprise to the Russians who by the end of the game period were ruling the place...

Oceanic nations would be more of a problem, with the no ships malus.

Also, the suggestions for Madagascar in this thread (including some by yours truly) https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/madagascar.869464/ also merit some attention...
 
  • 3
  • 1
Reactions:

TheeBadJoke

Corporal
11 Badges
Sep 26, 2013
36
25
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Hearts of Iron IV Sign-up
Given how involved the Maori were in the colonization of New Zealand I'm surprised they didn't get one nation to represent them in game.

Also Oceania should get a specific tech group similar to North American Natives or Incas..
That is definitely necessary as well if the nations are to be emulated properly.
 

AndrejK

Major
1 Badges
Aug 6, 2015
798
420
  • Crusader Kings II
As with Maori chiefdoms practically all are OPM save South Island... based on this map https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:IwiMap.png we get, on North Island (north to south)
Nga Puhi
Ngati Mahuta
Ngati Awa (Center, northeast)
Te Ati Awa (sothwest)
Ngati Kahungunu (SE)

South island is united in one country called Ngai Tahu.

To form Aotearoa you need to hold one province in South Island and 4 in North Island
 

tman144

Major
43 Badges
Jun 10, 2012
516
407
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Magicka
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Cities: Skylines - Parklife
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Prison Architect
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Crusader Kings III: Royal Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Stellaris
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Magicka: Wizard Wars Founder Wizard
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • 500k Club
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Cities: Skylines
I agree, Africa is too empty. The "Scramble for Africa" didn't occur until after the game ends, so being un-accessible to Europeans is actually a reason to include them.
 

PsysmicSound

Conscientious Objector
47 Badges
Feb 11, 2013
319
367
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Victoria 2: Heart of Darkness
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Heir to the Throne
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Divine Wind
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • 500k Club
  • Victoria 2
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis III Complete
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Cities: Skylines
But I do have to say that Central Asia being inaccessible to Europeans would have come as a surprise to the Russians who by the end of the game period were ruling the place...
I thought they were referring more to the likes of Tibet and Nepal. Even through the 19th century, surveying of major mountains (including Qomolangma/Everest) was done based on what was visible from India, because the aforementioned nations wouldn't let foreigners in at all, not even to gawk at the topography and ask the locals what they called it (hence Qomolangma/Everest being predominantly known by its English name, as opposed to most other mountains in the area).
 
  • 1
Reactions:

AndrejK

Major
1 Badges
Aug 6, 2015
798
420
  • Crusader Kings II
Well yeah I know that Scramble for Africa happened much later but it does not prevent Kongo or Swahili from interacting with the nations in inner Africa also strengthens African positions because then maybe a unified state in DRC would actually prevent Portugal from conquering Kongo...
 

Sagif

First Lieutenant
50 Badges
May 28, 2015
265
183
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Imperator: Rome - Magna Graecia
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Crusader Kings III: Royal Edition
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Stellaris
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV
We must keep in mind that there are A LOT of worth including in-game nations. Angola had a powerful kingdom that resisted the Portuguese for a long time, and not to mention great empires / kingdoms from Africa to Oceania.

But we must also remember that adding all of these nations would almost ruin the colonial gameplay, restricting it almost to North America.

In order to change that, we could add all of these kingdoms (and possibly more) and by doing that, adding a LOT more provinces to Africa, Oceania, etc, etc... This would, I believe, add IMMENSELY to game immersion and gameplay.
 
  • 6
Reactions:

AndrejK

Major
1 Badges
Aug 6, 2015
798
420
  • Crusader Kings II
Well we should keep in mind that the areas which aren ot owned by any country in EU4 were not effectively No Mans Land, since there WERE SOME TRIBES AND CHIEFDOMS who DID RESIST foreign rule...The lands WERE NOT EMPTY... what I would say that any organized kingdom should get representation in-game,and we should make some clear standart and border as to who should get representation and which provinces will have just generic natives... I suggest that all hunter-gatherers should be treated like colonisable, free land, while real chiefdoms who made contact with their neighbours should get representation
 
  • 5
Reactions:

hangmanwa7id

Private
15 Badges
Jun 18, 2014
22
0
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Imperator: Rome
I know that in the Society Islands, there were a number of true state-level kingdoms, each with different flavors. Bora-Bora was a militaristic state that conquered Tubuai at some point. Ra'iatea was more religious (I think it included Taha'a as well). I think Huahine and Mo'orea were independent but I don't know much about them. Tahiti started as several chiefdoms, gadually consolidating into one kingdom, which then began a campaign of conquests eastward through the Society Islands. The Tuamotus were pretty much a hinterland except for Mangareva, which was an important source of resources in the area.

I think though that to do it well, the height and terrain maps would need a serious overhaul in the Pacific; a lot of things are jumbled up and misplaced or even just fabricated (that huge mystery island south of Tonga, anyone?).
 
Last edited:

Sagif

First Lieutenant
50 Badges
May 28, 2015
265
183
  • Stellaris: Apocalypse
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Stellaris: Leviathans Story Pack
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Stellaris: Synthetic Dawn
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cradle of Civilization
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Stellaris: Humanoids Species Pack
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Europa Universalis IV: Dharma
  • Crusader Kings II: Holy Fury
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
  • Imperator: Rome Deluxe Edition
  • Imperator: Rome
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Imperator: Rome - Magna Graecia
  • Crusader Kings III
  • Crusader Kings III: Royal Edition
  • Europa Universalis 4: Emperor
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Cossacks
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Stellaris
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV
But let's differentiate things... We cannot give every nation that ever existed a chance to appear in EUIV.
Otherwise we could not have any colonial provinces.

Society Islands could have had a true state-level kingdom, but it was completely irrelevant in the global context. The same with Hawaii. Hawaii had a booming and a powerful nation, but it does not make sense to include them in-game. How could they expand? They are an island (group of islands) in the middle of the Pacific.
 
  • 3
  • 2
Reactions:

Moarice

Tyrant
71 Badges
Sep 12, 2015
1.972
3.320
  • Crusader Kings II: Charlemagne
  • Europa Universalis IV: Third Rome
  • Stellaris - Path to Destruction bundle
  • Crusader Kings II: Jade Dragon
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mare Nostrum
  • Cities: Skylines - Snowfall
  • Cities: Skylines - After Dark
  • Victoria 2: A House Divided
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Magicka
  • Europa Universalis IV: Call to arms event
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods
  • Crusader Kings II: Rajas of India
  • Crusader Kings II: The Republic
  • Crusader Kings II: Sons of Abraham
  • Crusader Kings II: Legacy of Rome
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Crusader Kings II: Sunset Invasion
  • Crusader Kings II: Sword of Islam
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Death or Dishonor
  • Tyranny - Tales from the Tiers
  • Europa Universalis IV: Mandate of Heaven
  • Cities: Skylines - Mass Transit
  • Crusader Kings II: Monks and Mystics
  • Tyranny - Bastards Wound
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Together for Victory
  • Cities: Skylines - Natural Disasters
  • Cities: Skylines - Green Cities
  • Stellaris: Digital Anniversary Edition
  • Tyranny: Gold Edition
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Tyranny: Archon Edition
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rights of Man
  • Crusader Kings II: Reapers Due
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Colonel
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Cadet
  • Stellaris Sign-up
  • Crusader Kings II: Conclave
  • Hearts of Iron IV: Expansion Pass
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Europa Universalis IV: Common Sense
  • Pillars of Eternity
  • Crusader Kings II: Way of Life
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
  • Cities: Skylines
  • Hearts of Iron IV: No Step Back
  • Victoria 2
They really should include Oceania. After all, there were some independent kingdoms even after Europeans came. Also, if anyone says that there were no great conquerors in the region or that they had no good historical kings - look up Kamehameha I.

And here we would get a formation decision - what about an ability to form Polynesia in game?
Speaking of Polynesia, why is Polynesian in Malayan culture group?
 

Jomini

General
6 Badges
Mar 28, 2004
2.105
2.233
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • 500k Club
  • Europa Universalis IV: Pre-order
  • Europa Universalis IV: Rule Britannia
  • Europa Universalis IV: Golden Century
Ahh yes, let us include a bunch of states that had no major wars with outsiders in 400 years, were not tightly integrated into trade networks, and just for fun make every region of the world less distinct.

I honestly have zero idea how this endless multiplication of states and provinces actually makes the game more interesting to play. The fewer strategic chokepoints you have, the less important it is where you start and the more the game degenerates into a simple min-max of point efficiency and AE.

But what the heck, let's throw out all 400 years of Kongolese strategy and make them face ahistorical threats from the east. Let's make the East African coast face the prospect of invasions that never did nor could have occurred. Who cares if the strategic imperatives are less historical or if we railroad states into ahistorical outcomes we get more countries that can join the glorious world shakers of Siberian Clan Councils.
 
  • 4
  • 3
Reactions:

Itchel

Major
7 Badges
Apr 16, 2014
726
344
  • Europa Universalis IV
  • Europa Universalis IV: Art of War
  • Europa Universalis IV: Conquest of Paradise
  • Europa Universalis IV: Wealth of Nations
  • Hearts of Iron III
  • Europa Universalis IV: Res Publica
  • Europa Universalis IV: El Dorado
i Agree but most of these tags come into existence around in the 1700's or 1780's... which is probably not worth adding a tag for