Nationalities that nearly were

[ekorovin]

Hilarion for one. The first metropolitan was also of uncertain origin.

You're right, I mixed that up. But it turns out Hilarion was elected during the war with ERE, and was deposed soon after. Well, Klim's election still led to controversy and schysm.

As for Michael, the first, I think it pretty obvious that he wasn't Russian, since he was sent to Vladimir in a "Orthodox starting pack" from Constantinople.

 

[Enravota]

You're right, I mixed that up. But it turns out Hilarion was elected during the war with ERE, and was deposed soon after. Well, Klim's election still led to controversy and schysm.

As for Michael, the first, I think it pretty obvious that he wasn't Russian, since he was sent to Vladimir in a "Orthodox starting pack" from Constantinople.

The original point was about Greeks not about non-Russians . There are potentially Armenians and Georgians sent to serve as well. The Balkans were the hub of Orthodox learning in the Middle ages, which BTW also explains the large number of Bulgarian metropolitans (though mostly after Kliment).

 

[Rey]

Moldovans in Moldova.

Like it was said, it's the same. The Principality's name was/is translated to Moldavia, but for some odd reason the Republic of the same name, is not translated to English. The translated name in my language, just like in many others, it's Moldavia. Seriously, so much nitpick about this....

Did they?

Maybe

Well there were plenty of Germans before the post-WWII populations transfers, still only a third of the population I think.

 

[Nicophorus]

I should of clarified but I was refering to the fairly modern age, how only the Greeks are viewed as having the hmmm, the venerableness, to lead the Orthodox community but seem to have zero ambition in that regard (which is a good thing, the best people as leaders are relectent ones, not grasping power lusting ones).

This perplexed the non greek orthodox I was talking to, and they lamented the disunity in the communion.

 

[Gordy]

Like it was said, it's the same. The Principality's name was/is translated to Moldavia, but for some odd reason the Republic of the same name, is not translated to English. The translated name in my language, just like in many others, it's Moldavia. Seriously, so much nitpick about this....

It's not a nitpick. It relates to the fundamental character of Moldova. "the North of Ireland", Northern Ireland and Ulster might seem like synonyms to someone who is neither Irish nor British but they convey a message about the way that you see that territory.

Moldavia is a Slavicised name that was used to bolster Russian claims to "Bassarabia", Romanian speakers (a majority in Moldova) say Moldova and that is the country's official name.

 

[Gordy]

Precisely. Târgul Moldovei (now Baia) - Market of Moldova. Referring to the river on which the city was located. Târgul Moldovei being apparently the first capital of the Principality, was its namesake, though I couldn't tell you why sources say that's the case over the name just coming straight from the river. I'm no romanian scholar. My point is just that, in english (and french, and presumably other foreign languages that make the distinction) nomenclature, Moldavia is the Principality and Moldova the modern country. There's no politically-loaded "one is slavicized one is native" distinction. It's like Siam vs. Thailand, I suppose. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baia

There isn't a big controversy in Anglophone politics because Anglophones by and large do not care about Moldova. However, the territory was contested between Romania and Russia. It is still a big problem with Russia using a break-away region to destablise the country.

 

[Amallric]

Moldavia is not a Slavicised name. If anything, it is a Latinised name that has been in use throughout Europe for centuries before any Russian presence in the country. I absolutely fail to understand how the "internationalised" Moldavia term can be somehow used to "bolster" any Russian claims. Not to mention that "Moldova" has been in continuous use for the entire duration of Russian and Soviet rule...in the Romanian/Moldavian language.

 

[Cèsar de Quart]

It's not a nitpick. It relates to the fundamental character of Moldova. "the North of Ireland", Northern Ireland and Ulster might seem like synonyms to someone who is neither Irish nor British but they convey a message about the way that you see that territory.

Moldavia is a Slavicised name that was used to bolster Russian claims to "Bassarabia", Romanian speakers (a majority in Moldova) say Moldova and that is the country's official name.

Sorry, but in Spanish (Moldavia), French (Moldavie) or German (Moldawien/Moldau) there's no "Moldova" version of the name. Moldavia has been the traditional English name for the country. If it has connotations in Moldavia or Romania themselves, it's not a problem that can concern English speakers.

 

[trybald]

I always wondered, why did the Mecklenburgian, Brandenbugian, Silesian, Pommerian, ..., Slav populations were almost or really completely assimilated by the Germans during their Eastward expansion, to which one might add the Prussians and other Balts, yet the Czechs largely retained their character despite also being under German rule for centuries (plus being so close and almost completely surrounded by them)?

Aside from Poland and Bohemia, almost all West Slavic lands were virtually post-conquest societies, even if local Slavic dynasties managed to retain power (like in Pomerania and Mecklenburg) as German /Danish vassals. Local native elites were either wiped out or forced to submit and assimilate. A completely different ethnicity imposed itself as the new ruling class. Within two generations Slavs were reduced into peasants or city paupers and any kind of social advance required switching into German language. Slavs were subjected into many forms of discrimination, for example they were barred from certain professions or from settling in certain areas or their word had less weight in courts. On the other hand, there was nothing resembling an apartheid (which would have kept the Slavic community cohesive). It was relatively easy to change one's status by switching into German language. In Poland and Bohemia the were native elites and the native element was never discriminated against. This allowed the Poles and Czechs to assimilate German settlers, not the other way around.

There's also a religious factor. There's a direct correlation between Protestantism and the success of the Germanization of West Slavic lands. In some cases (Upper Silesia, Lusatia) Catholic areas retained their predominately Slavic character. That was because the liturgical language in the Catholic Church was Latin. Both German and Slavic had similar status according to the church which allowed Slavic to retain some prestige. The situation was much different in Protestant lands, where the state decided the liturgical language. After a brief stint with using local languages (for example in Pomerania), the liturgical language was gradually switched into German, often after crushing severe resistance from the local population (there were severe riots in some Lower Silesian town over this forced language shift). This gave German additional prestige status and incentive to use it.

 

[Gordy]

Moldavia is not a Slavicised name. If anything, it is a Latinised name that has been in use throughout Europe for centuries before any Russian presence in the country. I absolutely fail to understand how the "internationalised" Moldavia term can be somehow used to "bolster" any Russian claims. Not to mention that "Moldova" has been in continuous use for the entire duration of Russian and Soviet rule...in the Romanian/Moldavian language.

No surprise there. The Moldovan language is Romanian with dialect words emphasised, Russian / Ukrainian neologisms added by the Soviets and back in the day they were forced to write in cyrillic - all to bolster the Russian claim to the area. Does it surprise you that the republic used the Russian name?

It's certainly news to me that Romanians ever used the word "Moldavia".

 

[Gordy]

Sorry, but in Spanish (Moldavia), French (Moldavie) or German (Moldawien/Moldau) there's no "Moldova" version of the name. Moldavia has been the traditional English name for the country. If it has connotations in Moldavia or Romania themselves, it's not a problem that can concern English speakers.

But Moldova is the normal name for the country in English, it has been since the republic became independent and changed its name, it is unusual to use "Moldavia" in English.

 

[RedRalphWiggum]

But Moldova is the normal name for the country in English, it has been since the republic became independent and changed its name, it is unusual to use "Moldavia" in English.

I've always heard of it referred to as Moldavia when it was a principality.

 

[Amallric]

No surprise there. The Moldovan language is Romanian with dialect words emphasised, Russian / Ukrainian neologisms added by the Soviets and back in the day they were forced to write in cyrillic - all to bolster the Russian claim to the area. Does it surprise you that the republic used the Russian name?

It's certainly news to me that Romanians ever used the word "Moldavia".

Either you are trolling or you completely failed to understand the post you are citing. Sorry to break your delusions here, but "the republic", in its official Moldavian language(which is indeed very similar, or identical to Romanian), never used the "Russian" name. The name that was used, and indeed the only name that exists in the Moldavian language, is "Moldova", just as I stated in my post. The "Russian"(but in fact not Russian but rather latinised) name has been used for the country since ages by all neighbours, which happen to include Russia, but also Britain, and pretty much every other country. There was no conspiracy to deprive the country of its "real" name in order to "bolster claims". Russians simply used, in their own language, the most common "international" version of the word instead of carefully transliterating the original pronunciation. This is all there is to it, really.

 

[Greenskyguy]

Had things gone differently with the Articles of Confederation, the United States likely would have broken up into several nationalities either based on states (Massachusetts vs. New Hampshire) or regional nationalities. And of course, there is always the Canadian question. Some Americans would have liked to have annexed them into the American Nation.

 

[Gordy]

I've always heard of it referred to as Moldavia when it was a principality.

The principality would seem to be a different case.

 

[Gordy]

Either you are trolling or you completely failed to understand the post you are citing. Sorry to break your delusions here, but "the republic", in its official Moldavian language(which is indeed very similar, or identical to Romanian), never used the "Russian" name. The name that was used, and indeed the only name that exists in the Moldavian language, is "Moldova", just as I stated in my post. The "Russian"(but in fact not Russian but rather latinised) name has been used for the country since ages by all neighbours, which happen to include Russia, but also Britain, and pretty much every other country. There was no conspiracy to deprive the country of its "real" name in order to "bolster claims". Russians simply used, in their own language, the most common "international" version of the word instead of carefully transliterating the original pronunciation. This is all there is to it, really.

Funny then that the Moldovan parliament bothered to vote for a name change from Moldavian SSR to Republic of Moldova in 1991 shortly before becoming independent.

 

[L'Afrique]

Sorry, but in Spanish (Moldavia), French (Moldavie) or German (Moldawien/Moldau) there's no "Moldova" version of the name. Moldavia has been the traditional English name for the country. If it has connotations in Moldavia or Romania themselves, it's not a problem that can concern English speakers.

The official french name is "République de Moldova" but afaik this is used almost exclusively in official communications- "la Moldavie" is far more common.

I'm not even sure what the argument is- "Moldavia" has no connotations to foreigners and does not exist in romanian. So who exactly is benefiting from Russia using one or the other?

 

[PMLF]

Had things gone differently with the Articles of Confederation, the United States likely would have broken up into several nationalities either based on states (Massachusetts vs. New Hampshire) or regional nationalities. And of course, there is always the Canadian question. Some Americans would have liked to have annexed them into the American Nation.

Brazil too could have broken up into several small states/nationalities, had we not kept our emperor during the most difficult period (thus uniting the country) and had we not crushed separatist rebellions in different regions of the country.

 

[Amallric]

Funny then that the Moldovan parliament bothered to vote for a name change from Moldavian SSR to Republic of Moldova in 1991 shortly before becoming independent.

Nothing funny with it. The name "Moldavian/Moldovan SSR" was built on the same pattern as every name of the constituent republics of the USSR: [adjective derived from the name of the nation] + SSR. This was changed to the pattern "Republic + [name of the country], so a substantive. Nothing particularly unusual in the pos-Soviet world, and certainly nothing subversive. The substantive "Moldova" never ceased to be used in the Romanian/Moldavian language throughout the Soviet period, it's just that the official, formal name of the Republic used the adjective derived from this word(which was, as I said, a standard practice in the Soviet Union).

 

[Gordy]

The official french name is "République de Moldova" but afaik this is used almost exclusively in official communications- "la Moldavie" is far more common.

I'm not even sure what the argument is- "Moldavia" has no connotations to foreigners and does not exist in romanian. So who exactly is benefiting from Russia using one or the other?

Russia's behaviour towards Moldova is much like its behaviour towards Ukraine. They have long occupied the territory, they tried to Russify the population with mixed success and they manipulate events there by backing breakaway regions and controlling the supply of gas.

The country's official name is Moldova and has been since 1991. Why use the Russian name?