Does anyone have any tips on how to hold back Japan as Nat. China in AoD? I play on Normal Difficulty with Furious AI aggressiveness. Just when I think I am winning against Japan, they do a seaborne invasion and I fall back. How might I beat the Japanese as Nat. China? I know the odds are stacked, but there has to be a way.
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You could garrison some divisions on each beach like a army of 2 militia units and 1 inf or 2 inf and 1 militia, but it weakens your forces in the Shanxi front and if the war lasts till the Vichy regime is created Japan will most likely get Vietnam and might attack from there.
Totally correct. Defending the beaches must have top priority. Whenever Japan lands there and brings in five or more division, you will need a ton of Chinese ones to threw them out. It's better to lose some territory in Northwestern China before allowing the Japanese to land.
Holding back Japan is easy, pushing them back however isn't. To hold them back all you have to do is focus on spamming militia until the Marco Polo incident. By that time you should be able to put about 7-8 militia divs on every beach province (which makes it practically impossible for Japan to land there) and still have plenty of divs left to hold the border with Shanxi. Unfortunately, this creates a stalemate, which neither Japan, nor you can geat easily out of. Fortunately, Japan's default build ai is somewhat stupid, focusing too much on ships, so if you bide your time until you have built 1 or 2 hq units, you should be able to begin to slowly push them back.
Oh wow, that will help me on my Nationalist China campaign a little bit more then the strategy I just stated.
War is an extension of politics. It would be a good idea to ally with Japan. Get blueprints and civilized and you can beat Japan later. I believe 1941 is the best timing to declare war.
Agin's approach
If you play Nat. China, start with producing nothing but Infantry divisions. Try using as many "good" officers (i.e. Offensive, Defensive and Tricksters) in the beginning war against Communist china as possible, the experience they gather in this war is highly valuable against the Japanese later. As soon as you make your peace with the Reds, hurry your troops down south to engage Guangxi, which will attack you roughly three months later. Here applies the same rule: use as many "good" officers as possible to gain experience. When you make peace with them, hurry your troops north again. If Japan attacks, forge the "Unified Front" and seize command of all the troops of your new allies. Send these troops to the provinces with beaches to prevent the Japanese from invading. Look frequently if they have produced new units and transfer them to the beaches, too, to strengthen your defenses.
From time to time, share blueprints with your allies, like better Infantry Divisions or Land doctrins.
Send your troops to Guanxi to slow down the inevitable japanese advance, but don't save Guanxi, even if you could - it's existence prevents you from conquering all the jucy Japanese provinces and the whole of Manchukuo later!
Don't get cocky, even if it seems tempting to attack them or take the occasional province back, don't!
Wait.
Let them attack you, your defence is usually much better than their attack. Watch the terrain on which you fight closely Mountains and cities are your friends! Let them bleed themselves on your increasingly higher stacks of troops and contend yourself in gathering more divisions.
When you have built about 100-120 divisions (around early 1939), you can begin to advance. Make sure you have enough Field Marshals to support your huge armies when you attack. Before you do, check the weather. Then attack them a while and stop to have your org back and your casualties replaced. You should get them back much faster than the Japanese, and your manpower pool and manpower-regain-rate is much higher. Thus, you simply wear them out until they break. Then you hit them with the entire brutal force of your Army. Push them further on and into the sea. You should hurry a little, because all of this has to be acomplished before Vichy-France is established! If Vichy comes, the Japanese will get Vietnam and could start invading your country from the south. So it is crucial to send some 50 + divisions to the border of Vietnam to be able to start invading it as soon as the Japanese get their Hands on it. As a bonus, it has some valuable ressources.
If you have done this, you can finally relax a little. Build some tanks, build some brigades for your troops (I always use Artillery). If you want a really big Empire, move your troops to Afghanistan, DoW them, conquer them and then invade the Soviets! The trick in doing so is to drive a wedge from south to north, thus cutting the USSR in half, starving the eastern soviet troops until you crush them and advance westward towards the Germans. Remember to advance to Baku quickly before the Germans take it ^^
If you encounter Ressource-Problems, enhance the Infrastructure of ressource-rich provinces (they go up to 200% now and the amount of ressources they produce increases greatly, as well as the number of IC the factories provide). This is cheaper and faster than building factories.
Okay, that's it. Let me know if it worked for you!
If you play Nat. China, start with producing nothing but Infantry divisions. Try using as many "good" officers (i.e. Offensive, Defensive and Tricksters) in the beginning war against Communist china as possible, the experience they gather in this war is highly valuable against the Japanese later. As soon as you make your peace with the Reds, hurry your troops down south to engage Guangxi, which will attack you roughly three months later. Here applies the same rule: use as many "good" officers as possible to gain experience. When you make peace with them, hurry your troops north again. If Japan attacks, forge the "Unified Front" and seize command of all the troops of your new allies. Send these troops to the provinces with beaches to prevent the Japanese from invading. Look frequently if they have produced new units and transfer them to the beaches, too, to strengthen your defenses.
From time to time, share blueprints with your allies, like better Infantry Divisions or Land doctrins.
Send your troops to Guanxi to slow down the inevitable japanese advance, but don't save Guanxi, even if you could - it's existence prevents you from conquering all the jucy Japanese provinces and the whole of Manchukuo later!
Don't get cocky, even if it seems tempting to attack them or take the occasional province back, don't!
Wait.
Let them attack you, your defence is usually much better than their attack. Watch the terrain on which you fight closely Mountains and cities are your friends! Let them bleed themselves on your increasingly higher stacks of troops and contend yourself in gathering more divisions.
When you have built about 100-120 divisions (around early 1939), you can begin to advance. Make sure you have enough Field Marshals to support your huge armies when you attack. Before you do, check the weather. Then attack them a while and stop to have your org back and your casualties replaced. You should get them back much faster than the Japanese, and your manpower pool and manpower-regain-rate is much higher. Thus, you simply wear them out until they break. Then you hit them with the entire brutal force of your Army. Push them further on and into the sea. You should hurry a little, because all of this has to be acomplished before Vichy-France is established! If Vichy comes, the Japanese will get Vietnam and could start invading your country from the south. So it is crucial to send some 50 + divisions to the border of Vietnam to be able to start invading it as soon as the Japanese get their Hands on it. As a bonus, it has some valuable ressources.
If you have done this, you can finally relax a little. Build some tanks, build some brigades for your troops (I always use Artillery). If you want a really big Empire, move your troops to Afghanistan, DoW them, conquer them and then invade the Soviets! The trick in doing so is to drive a wedge from south to north, thus cutting the USSR in half, starving the eastern soviet troops until you crush them and advance westward towards the Germans. Remember to advance to Baku quickly before the Germans take it ^^
If you encounter Ressource-Problems, enhance the Infrastructure of ressource-rich provinces (they go up to 200% now and the amount of ressources they produce increases greatly, as well as the number of IC the factories provide). This is cheaper and faster than building factories.
Okay, that's it. Let me know if it worked for you!
Nothing but infantry divisions? Nat. China at best can get roughly 3 productions lines. Wouldn't it be better to do militia and infantry?
I guared all of my beaches except one and by the time I got military control of Guangxi it was too late.
Did the Japanese really push you down that far?
He meant Shanxi, the northern faction, not Guanxi, the southern one. It's true that you have to let them fall, otherwise they'll be the one to get the (eventually) conquered provinces from Manchukuo and Japan instead of you.
However, i do not think that this guy's strategy is feasible in AOD, even if you play against the default (unmodded, thus stupid) Japan AI. You just can't produce enough infantry in time to guard all your beaches and the border with Shanxi.
However, i do not think that this guy's strategy is feasible in AOD, even if you play against the default (unmodded, thus stupid) Japan AI. You just can't produce enough infantry in time to guard all your beaches and the border with Shanxi.
Best bet to at least stop the Japs is to do early war - with the even when the Guangzhou warlord is asking you to take harder measurements against Japan, agree with them. They'll join you (annex) and you get quite a bit of troops, including an airforce and a few boats. Only the boats won't be of much use, but as war will start soon, keep them for some delaying actions together with your fleet, they might be helpful.
Prepare your troops in Tsingtao (good beer will improve morale
) beforehand, and sue the Guanzhou troops to guard the beaches. You'll have a few weeks before the next event in which Japan will DoW you. then, wait with your troops in Tsingtao before the Japanese have marched into Shanxi, trying to get a position as good as possible. As soon as Shanxi capitulates (annex by you by event) try to hold the frontline and use your best troops to counter attack. You might even have some superior equipment by then (1936 inf compared with Japans 1918) if you're lucky and pushed hard. Just their doctrines will be much better for quite a while. But guess what, theirs won't get better for couple of years while yours will improve. If you don't managed to win quickly, time will be on your side. More men, more potential growth, the Soviet and American help (and Embargo against the Japs) - you're in for a win.
Prepare your troops in Tsingtao (good beer will improve morale
) beforehand, and sue the Guanzhou troops to guard the beaches. You'll have a few weeks before the next event in which Japan will DoW you. then, wait with your troops in Tsingtao before the Japanese have marched into Shanxi, trying to get a position as good as possible. As soon as Shanxi capitulates (annex by you by event) try to hold the frontline and use your best troops to counter attack. You might even have some superior equipment by then (1936 inf compared with Japans 1918) if you're lucky and pushed hard. Just their doctrines will be much better for quite a while. But guess what, theirs won't get better for couple of years while yours will improve. If you don't managed to win quickly, time will be on your side. More men, more potential growth, the Soviet and American help (and Embargo against the Japs) - you're in for a win.
Agin, that is similar to my strategy in Arma, but AoD is much more difficult. I've tried it a few times, but China has only about 20 base IC in AoD compared to 52 in Arma. It's a completely different scenario and I honestly don't see how your tactic is feasible. There simply isn't time or resources to rely on INF.
Also, the warlords are a bigger problem in AoD. The last game I tried had Shanxi and Yunnan joining Guangxi against me. Shanxi attacking me from the north took me off guard. As soon as they joined Guangxi, however, Sinkiang joined Japan in a war against all 3 of them. Shortly after that, Com China declared against Shanxi. So, while I'm trying to hold off Yunnan, delay against Shanxi and push in on Guangxi, Japan is eating up Shanxi and landing south against Guangxi. Com China pushes in on Shanxi and winds up annexing them, leaving this mess:
This is just Nov 1936! I'm still not at war with Japan. While this is one of the worst cases I've had, something always seems to go badly for Nat China in AoD. Compounding the problem is that their tech is atrocious, taking over a year per tech and you only have 2 slots. Nat China is pretty rough in AoD. Arma tactics don't work.
Also, the warlords are a bigger problem in AoD. The last game I tried had Shanxi and Yunnan joining Guangxi against me. Shanxi attacking me from the north took me off guard. As soon as they joined Guangxi, however, Sinkiang joined Japan in a war against all 3 of them. Shortly after that, Com China declared against Shanxi. So, while I'm trying to hold off Yunnan, delay against Shanxi and push in on Guangxi, Japan is eating up Shanxi and landing south against Guangxi. Com China pushes in on Shanxi and winds up annexing them, leaving this mess:
This is just Nov 1936! I'm still not at war with Japan. While this is one of the worst cases I've had, something always seems to go badly for Nat China in AoD. Compounding the problem is that their tech is atrocious, taking over a year per tech and you only have 2 slots. Nat China is pretty rough in AoD. Arma tactics don't work.
I've just finished my AAR with Nat. China in AoD (it was 1.04, so it should be a bit harder with 1.07, yes, but still doable)
http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum...3-To-restore-the-Republic-(Nationalist-China)
Maybe gets you an idea how to play too, even though I did made some mistakes in the start..
And of course, compared with most other wars/fronts, the China vs. Japan war is bound to be able to move into quite a lot of scenarios, as both a quick Chinese and Japanese victory is possible but most probably a long and bloody war like in history.
http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum...3-To-restore-the-Republic-(Nationalist-China)
Maybe gets you an idea how to play too, even though I did made some mistakes in the start..
And of course, compared with most other wars/fronts, the China vs. Japan war is bound to be able to move into quite a lot of scenarios, as both a quick Chinese and Japanese victory is possible but most probably a long and bloody war like in history.
When Manchuria is annexed, you'll get the provinces (since they are your cores, not Shanxi's). The thing preventing the Fading Sun event from triggering is Shanxi holding Peking (which you have to own).
Optional defensive tactics for early years:
Buil militia and engineers and put them in stacks of 1 INF w ENG + 11 militias.
Dig in, hold your lines, and enjoy! While the Japanese are killing themselves you may start producing better stuff.
Buil militia and engineers and put them in stacks of 1 INF w ENG + 11 militias.
Dig in, hold your lines, and enjoy! While the Japanese are killing themselves you may start producing better stuff.
OK I was wondering why he said Guangxi, cause I know that your supposed to let Japan annex Shanxi first.
Oh yes, I read your fun little AAR, it kinda got me into playing as Nat. China.
I would not write off Agin's advice so quickly. For sure Shanxi will fall - it is part of his strategy - so let's not worry about those beaches. As regards the rest, there are only 7 Chinese beaches. For sure you will have Yantai and Quingdao heavily guarded as it is your front which eliminates 2 beaches. Guangxi should be guarding its own beaches and at least Xiamen too, which eliminates another Chinese concern. Comes down to China only needs to guard 4 beaches of which one is mountainous. Seems quite do-able.
Don't worry about Shanxi taking your provinces in Manchuko. As long as you can push forward despite their poor transport capacity, you'll get Manchuko. If a country is annexed, and a member of the alliance that annexes that country has cores on it (unless there is a conflict), the provinces go to the country with cores on them. So since Nationalist China has cores on all of Manchuria, regardless of who annexes them (unless it is communist China), you will get the provinces.
You are correct regarding the cores and who gets Manchuria. But you will not get the provinces in Shanxi (they still are Shanxi), thereby cutting off your further gains and requiring you to convoy to your provinces in Manchuria which is simply a handi-cap. Agin's advice considers that and also that the very best solution is the political end of Shanxi for China to realize its fullest ambitions.
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