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50shadesofgreen

First Lieutenant
Nov 5, 2018
224
167
Hi. First question on here.

I'm replaying as Japan 1936 start FTM. National Unity starts at 70. Need some work to get it up to 80 to be able to employ Heavy Industry later. So got 10 spies and best press laws busily raising NU by 0.014 per day (with that modest hit from Fractured Government).

So it was all going well until Feb 1937 when I was halfway there. Suddenly I realised there was a slowdown. My daily raise had dropped from daily 0.014 to just 0.010. I know this sounds minor but the implications are that it's now going to take me an extra half year to meet my necessary goal of the NU of 80.

There were no other obvious factors in the NU slow other than passing the magic total of 75 NU. Using saves it repeated the drop every time it passed 75.

So I am wondering whether there are other incremental hits as NU raises. Also curious as to whether bad NU therefore is easier to raise for countries so stricken because lower levels heal faster?
 
50shadesofgreen said:
Hi. First question on here.

I'm replaying as Japan 1936 start FTM. National Unity starts at 70. Need some work to get it up to 80 to be able to employ Heavy Industry later. So got 10 spies and best press laws busily raising NU by 0.014 per day (with that modest hit from Fractured Government).

So it was all going well until Feb 1937 when I was halfway there. Suddenly I realised there was a slowdown. My daily raise had dropped from daily 0.014 to just 0.010. I know this sounds minor but the implications are that it's now going to take me an extra half year to meet my necessary goal of the NU of 80.

There were no other obvious factors in the NU slow other than passing the magic total of 75 NU. Using saves it repeated the drop every time it passed 75.

So I am wondering whether there are other incremental hits as NU raises. Also curious as to whether bad NU therefore is easier to raise for countries so stricken because lower levels heal faster?
Click to expand...

Possible that another nation is trying to lower your National unity OR you have an event affecting it and you missed it
 
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Exactly what I thought at first. Except I was clear of foreign spies and to make sure I hadn't missed an event I checked by replaying the point where I crossed the 75 NU line. Whatever the date the decrease comes on passing 75.

Hence why I was wondering whether there are other thresholds in there?
 
I would imagine that the ideal path is to keep your spies on raising party whatever to eliminate the fractured government modifier, if you haven't already.
 
Thanks for the replies. It was driving me mad when I first noticed the drop as I couldn't figure out what had changed!

Wraith11B, your suggestion indeed worked fine when playing as Germany. In this game I am Japanese and their 1936 government come pre-nerfed with ruling party Org and Pop both hovering marginally above zero. I would need to have started from 1930 to remove their fractured government.

I tried to see earlier NU threshold levels by testing a French and Russian game. Theirs raises by larger increments from lower levels. Fr by +0.067 and Sov by +0.028. It looks like the difference between the two is fixed by a modifier for the country or government type? It would be nice to see that in the tool tip.
 
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Are there any minister traits that are affecting the rate for either France or the SU? Aside from that, it would point toward a couple of other break points in the NU curve, where raising it gets less effective each time you pass one of those points. I had long suspected it, but never did a test to confirm it.
 
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Yes. If I recall it the right way around, Fra had two and Sov had one (?). Some could not be swapped out to make a level test. I think changing out one Fr one moved the increment from 0.067 to 0.063. That 10% each minister has therefore not influencing much?

The threshold levels matter for Fra as they have an event to boost NU by 5 or 6? You'll obviously want to use that for the harder part of the climb!
 
I've gone back into the France 1936 start in FTM to seek out the National Unity thresholds. There's two ministers adding 10% to NU changes, along with the extra 20% from press laws.

From the base NU of 35 the rise is a constant daily 0.067.

On hitting an NU total of 54, increase halves to 0.033
At 59 it drops to 0.022
At 66 it drops to 0.016
At 75 it drops to 0.012
At 86 it drops to 0.011 - that's your later level Kovax.

The French have a Popular Front event that raises NU by 7. At game start firing the event would save you 104 days of effort. Waiting to fire this after your NU passes 54 would save you 208 days of effort. Obviously saving it for later saves you more time still.

The Soviets have the Officer Purge event giving you a 25 leap in NU. So saving that for a little later can save a massive amount of time!
 
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Those numbers are bothering me!

The increment seems to start at 67, then drops to a half, then third, 1/4, 1/5 then 1/6. Some rounding up involved.

The thresholds though make no logical mathematical progression? 54, 59, 66, 75, 86. I would expect it to be harder to get gains in unity the closer you get to full unity. The jumps here are 5, 7, 9 and 11. I would have expected that sequence in reverse?

Incidentally the thresholds and gains seem identical in all those major countries, once Minister levels are taken into account.

I'm currently into Sept 1937 in my Japan game. My party Org is barely unchanged at 10.90 from a brief moment when I tinkered with that at the start. My party Pop is gaining and now 16 without needing any further influence.
 
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So I finally passed the National Unity of 80 and selected Heavy Industry. My internal whoop of victory was quickly muted when I noticed there was a Sinxiang spy intent on lowering it. In fact in the last few months there were several other unnoticed interlopers in there doing political stuff. Safely past my intended NU level, I switched my spies to counterespionage. I killed off the other guys but the Sinxiang guy determinedly held on by a month.

Curiously this spy lowered my daily NU raise from +10 to +8 when in "raise" mode. It was lowered by -4 when counter espionage mode (with fractured gov and best ministers). So it was better in the short term to ignore him than kill him?
 
Incidentally, has anyone witnessed a meaningful impact from "support party" ministers. They are definitely not affecting party Org. Also party Pop seems so random that I don't actually see any positive worth out of them, even with stacking up three bonuses.
 
Maybe they suffer the same type of bug as this one ?

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Minister traits regarding decay seemingly not working

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Possibly. I'm not saying they do not have any effect on Popularity. I'm just not noticing any.

I ran a test game yesterday to raise 1936 Jap party pop. After 12 months of spies supporting party, I finally got my party org above the rest. My pop went up and down, but was finally hardly any better than start.

I've actually had better results just ignoring pop, org and fractured gov.
 
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BTW I am playing FTM with the last beta patch , so I won't see any TFH changes.

I thought those practical decay ministers worked for me, but I am now going to check. I feel another campaign re-start coming on!
 
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50shadesofgreen said:
Incidentally, has anyone witnessed a meaningful impact from "support party" ministers. They are definitely not affecting party Org. Also party Pop seems so random that I don't actually see any positive worth out of them, even with stacking up three bonuses.
Click to expand...
Don't they affect Party Popularity, rather than ORG? In essence, no long-term effect, but good for a minor boost in popularity before an election.
 
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I'm wondering whether my viewpoint is being skewed due to the Japanese starting with minimal party Org? Ruling party starts something like 30 points behind the leading party in the bar graph.

I did a test a few days ago and by putting everything I had into support party, I was ahead in the bar graph org race after 12 months. My pie chart popularity was not significantly better. I have had better pop by just not bothering! The Leninists were level with me without any showing in the org bars!

I am seeing trend of pop drifting up towards the org values. This is what I supposed would happen. It feels like they also add in an effect of change in org but this is flawed because a boost in org (propaganda or popular political result) shows as a negative. So raising your org BOTH has a chance of raising and lowering pop, which obscures any minister effects.
 
The act of raising Party Organization causes a drop in Party Popularity. Supporting your party for 12 months is going to lead to extremely weak Party Popularity. Change over to some other espionage activity for 2-4 months, and Party Popularity should show a significant increase toward the new Party Organization level. As a Democracy, NEVER try raising Party ORG within a couple of months of an election, unless you WANT to lose that election.
 
What to do with Japan then? 1936 start and Ruling Party org is 9.70. Actual pop around 2. It's going to drift towards an pop of 9.70 anyway in 12 months whether I use ministers or not. BUT it's never going to best the 9.70 org level.
 
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