National Provinces, Seaports, and Unit Production Request

[vertinox]

One thing that always puzzled me about HoI1 is that once you annexed another country you could immediately place units there as soon as they were ready. Almost like your divisions were training in secret behind enemey lines the whole time in the woods.

And secondly you could basically place a unit you have produced anywhere instantly as almost that you pulled them out of a time space warp regardless of where they might be "theoretically" being trained or produced.

For example, if you are playing the Soviets and you are building a Battleship (for some weird reason) and when it was ready you could instantly and at your whim place it either at Lenningrad or Vladivostok.

Sure you could always "pretend" that you were always building it there, but in my mind it would make more sense if Ship production was linked to the actual port and that each port had a capacity of not only how many ships could be docked, but of how many it could produce. (Which could be an attribute that you could invest resources in raising.)

And mentioning back to my first point about National provinces and unit production... If for some reason you were playing as the USSR and you annexed say Japan you should not be able to produce ships in Tokyo bay.

Seeing that one would think that on being invaded and annexed the ports would be destroyed somewhat and it's unlikley you will get the inhabitants of an occupied nation to build ships for you.

This would be nice to also be applied to land units as well or at least limit their placement in the national provinces that were claimed by the game engine (ie Germany placing units in Austria and China placing units in Taiwan). It would be nice to have this narrowed down to having units built based of cities or at least national provinces that can trace a line overland from the capital.

Producing a tank division and then being able to place it on an island without actually placing it on a transport keeping the opposing sides from being able to interdict always seemed kind of campy. (although I have been guilty of the said act playing as Japan )

 

[Tachikaze]

I agree about the part about implementing sort of factories, shipyards and training camps, allthough it might be a pain for the AI to know where it will need to build its units in advance of an enemy attack, just take the SU as an example. If the AI SU builds all its units in Moscow, Leningrad and Minsk, how will it be able to defend the Far East if a human Japan decides to attack? That's a pretty long way to travel you know...

The part I disagree about is wether or not you can place new units in the factories, training camps or shipyards of conquered countries or not. I mean, just look at France as an example, lots of German troops were trained there and many factories produced materiels for the Wehrmacht, and the same in Benelux, Denmark and Norway I believe. Not to mention Austria or Czechoslovakia... No, I think that rule should be kept, an annexed country is sort of "home ground". Another factor that could do with some looking over though, is how fast these factories are rebuilt... Well, only time (or a beta if I can catch one in a dark alley ) will tell...

 

[vertinox]

The part I disagree about is wether or not you can place new units in the factories, training camps or shipyards of conquered countries or not. I mean, just look at France as an example, lots of German troops were trained there and many factories produced materiels for the Wehrmacht, and the same in Benelux, Denmark and Norway I believe. Not to mention Austria or Czechoslovakia... No, I think that rule should be kept, an annexed country is sort of "home ground". Another factor that could do with some looking over though, is how fast these factories are rebuilt... Well, only time (or a beta if I can catch one in a dark alley ) will tell...

I can see what you mean, but France and Denmark were adjacent nations and Germany had the ability to use naval tranport uncontested to Norway almost as if they were adjacent and really not that far away.

But if Germany were to annex say... Costa Rica... (hey it can happen) they should not be able instantly place 80 infantry divisions and 20 armored divisions that just finished in the production quene and swarm up through Mexico into the US. Even if the US Navy had total supremacy there was nothing that they could do except sink the convoy ships.

Germany should have to ship those units via transports so they don't defy space and time and instead have a Kreigsmarine vs USNAV face off to achieve landfall.

 

[Darkrenown]

Producing a tank division and then being able to place it on an island without actually placing it on a transport keeping the opposing sides from being able to interdict always seemed kind of campy. (although I have been guilty of the said act playing as Japan )

Could you do that in HoI? You couldn't in Vic. Anyway, in either game when you place a unit it starts at 0 Org, that's becasue you haven't actually 'placed the division', you've just assigned it's gathering point and it takes a while for the men and equitment to turn up and get organised.

 

[unmerged(32885)]

I can see another interesting consequence of this type of unit production. Lets say you have to choose a port as the building facility for a battleship. If the enemy then capture that port before the battleship is finished, they can then assume control of finishing the construction. If you like, you can factor in some type of random chance that the construction process would be assumed or that the building ship would be scuttled by the retreating army; similar to the random process of whether or not ships in harbor are captured or not.

I only forsee this actually working for ship production, as that is the only production that really revolves around "single" units, rather than divisions made up of manymen/equipment. No single factory was respondsible for the creation of every tank in a division, or every plane in a squadron.

I do agree, though, that being able to magically place units that have been in production for months into newly annexed nations, especially ones cut off from the rest of your "mainland" is a bit unrealistic.

 

[unmerged(5110)]

I thought in HoI1, Germany never annexed France, only occupied her?

 

[Tachikaze]

I thought in HoI1, Germany never annexed France, only occupied her?

Why wouldn't you be able to annex it? As long as you got the Japanese to take Indochina and helped the Italians take the African colonies, there was nothing stopping you IIRC.

 

[GhengisKhan]

Why wouldn't you be able to annex it? As long as you got the Japanese to take Indochina and helped the Italians take the African colonies, there was nothing stopping you IIRC.

Don't forget about the pacific islands close to Australia. Thats why people dont usually annex france, they have to much territory spread out over a massive area. It's alot easier to accept Vichy or puppet.

 

[Tachikaze]

Don't forget about the pacific islands close to Australia. Thats why people dont usually annex france, they have to much territory spread out over a massive area. It's alot easier to accept Vichy or puppet.

Ok, I play CORE so I might very well be wrong...

 

[unmerged(17541)]

Don't forget about the pacific islands close to Australia. Thats why people dont usually annex france, they have to much territory spread out over a massive area. It's alot easier to accept Vichy or puppet.

playing GER I always annex france...-...much better then vichy or puppet...

...much easier then UK btw. - you only have to take Vietnam oversea...

.

 

[Tachikaze]

playing GER I always annex france...-...much better then vichy or puppet...

...much easier then UK btw. - you only have to take Vietnam oversea...

.

It might me just CORE, but aren't Dakar and Libreville also VP locations? Especially Libreville can be a pain in the ass since you have to go all the way around Africa to get it... Well, unless you've managed to keep the ocean lanes clear from Allied ships, something I find quite hard and unneccessary to do...

 

[unmerged(12612)]

From a modders perspective, the solution is simple. New units should only be placeable in provinces that have industrial capacity equal to or greater than X, where X is a number that can be changed by modders. This way, players who want to play an ahistorical game in which new units can be placed any where and every where can set X to equal 0. Players who want a more historical game can set X to equal 10, 20, or whatever.

I hope Paradox gives serious consideration to giving modders the power to change many of these types of "global variables." By the term "global variables" I mean variables that do not apply to a specific unit, technology or country, but rather gameplay as a whole...an example from HoI would be the logistic penalty. Doing so only helps Paradox in the long run because it permits players to fix game balance problems on their own, without the need for an official patch.