Can we create fictional countries like Scandinavia or Vinland ? Would they have their own national ideas and traditions in the game?
National ideas, traditions and ambitions for theoretical countries like Scandinavia?
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You can mod in nations that get formed later in the time period yes.
Even some of the great nations, (like russia in Tier1, and The Netherlands in Tier2) form later on in the games time-frame
Even some of the great nations, (like russia in Tier1, and The Netherlands in Tier2) form later on in the games time-frame
I am not talking about ability to mod-IIRC some were possible to be created later in EU 3 even if they didn't exist in our history.
im betting the formed nation keeps the traits of the nation that forms it(in the case of scandinavia)
Ideas go by the country you start with according to what was said so far about Scotland and Novgorod leading to a Great Britain/Russia with different ideas than one formed by England/Moscow.
So Scandinavia would not have its own ideas, it would have those of either Denmark, Sweden or Norway depending on who united it.
So Scandinavia would not have its own ideas, it would have those of either Denmark, Sweden or Norway depending on who united it.
It's hard to give a fictional country specific ideas though since there is no history to base them on.
True, but most unions like this are geographically and/or culturally based. Not like they were just invented out of thin air.
Granted, it'd be a bit weird if unions had their own special NIs. I mean, how does that work if someone unites the Kalmar Union into Scandinavia as Denmark, but has 3 Danish ideas already? Do you lose them? Do you keep them unless you pick new ones? I think it's good that that the NIs stick with whatever nation formed the union, but I hope that unions get flavor in the form of decisions that could act as perks.
It would be silly to lose your existing ideas just because you changed tags. The only way to circumvent this would be to let the player have the idea groups he already have completed. Then change the empty, remaining idea groups to fit with the newly formed nation.
Well I am certain you would not make Scandinavia if it had its own.. did you see Swedens national ideas ?? no wonder they will eat up Scandinavia in 99% of AI playthroughs as Johan said
screw new ideas when you can stick with Swedens.That being said its disappointing
but its the way it will be "before mods" so no point in asking them about it. I feel like EU4 will have much more similar outcomes than its predecessors due to these national ideas.
Thats why you can't make it that way. it has to be the "forming" nations NI and thats why you would not want to form it with any other than Sweden
It seems like you get punished for making choices like (uniting) nations or even playing your own way.. atleast thats how I feel about the NI
Thats why you can't make it that way. it has to be the "forming" nations NI and thats why you would not want to form it with any other than Sweden
Denmark is Tier 2 if I remember, so they should be getting their own NIs. Milan is tier 3 and got a set.
Yes but I will bet you my old moldy hat! that they will not get militaristic NI like the ones Sweden have
they will be 100% focused on trade+navy. So for the people that want to be able to fend off Russia etc as a big Scandinavia Sweden will most likely be the best solution
that was my point.. I know all get their own NI if they are in 1 of the 3 tiers (I never liked tiers either) and the rest will get a generic.. I just hope it wont force me to play one specific way ^^
I much prefer if the country that forms determines the union tag's ideas. That creates replay value and customization. A Danish Scandinavia thus has a focus different from a Swedish Scandinavia. An Austrian united-HRE keeps the Austrian flavor, whereas a Prussian Germany is a whole other animal than a Bavarian-formed Germany. That makes sense... union tags this way feel truer to their roots, the day you change your tag, you're no longer ditching your past, you're just giving it new horizons.
This being said, there could reasonably be exceptions to the rule, I think. Sometimes the change of scope would logically change national policy, and its best represented by a new set of core ideas. A landlocked region that forms Spain should logically become more naval than it once was. But "inherits the old ones" seems like a good 'default' rule to use, at least for fantasy union tags. Since historical ones will all have a separate set thats an harder call to make. If I form France with Provence, itd make sense to get France's ideas, but if I do it with a strong Burgundy that has deep roots in the Lowlands and Rhenania, I'd rather keep Burgundy's.
This being said, there could reasonably be exceptions to the rule, I think. Sometimes the change of scope would logically change national policy, and its best represented by a new set of core ideas. A landlocked region that forms Spain should logically become more naval than it once was. But "inherits the old ones" seems like a good 'default' rule to use, at least for fantasy union tags. Since historical ones will all have a separate set thats an harder call to make. If I form France with Provence, itd make sense to get France's ideas, but if I do it with a strong Burgundy that has deep roots in the Lowlands and Rhenania, I'd rather keep Burgundy's.
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Yes but I will bet you my old moldy hat! that they will not get militaristic NI like the ones Sweden have
So for the people that want to be able to fend off Russia etc as a big Scandinavia Sweden will most likely be the best solution
I know all get their own NI if they are in 1 of the 3 tiers (I never liked tiers either) and the rest will get a generic.. I just hope it wont force me to play one specific way ^^
The tiers aren't so bad. Especially for Vanilla. I imagine that as DLCs come down the pipe, the idea that there were tiers will largely wash away.
Yes and no. I don't think that NI sets will differ that much within a given cultural region. How wildly different should tier 3 Bavaria be from tier 1 Austria? Or Novgorod from Muscovy? So although a formable nation's NIs will reflect their primary state/culture more than anything else, I don't think it's reasonable to conclude that two nations within a culture group will necessarily have night and day differences in NIs. Only exception to that would be parts of the German group, because the Hansa is definitely not getting land based military NIs the same way that Brandenburg/Prussia is. But I'd say that's an exception; no other cultural group will be as fragmented as the Germanic group, or have a series of landlocked and ocean-bordering provinces.
Austria and Bavaria would be pretty close, but a Novgorod-dominated Rus would be QUITE different from the Muscovian Rus we know and love. Novgorod was an outward looking land of traders, and definitely should have different ideas, in a fashion similar to what you point out would only be reasonable in Germany. The sliders differences between Novgorod and Muscowy in EU3 are a good indication that the devs are aware of the differences, though they did say they were still considering whether or not they'd get different idea sets. To me the answer is clear; they absolutely should.
And the France-Burgundy example I listed is another I feel merits distinction even tho both are French-culture-group. Another example might be in Iberia, where Portugal clearly warrants a different idea set from Spain, and assuming its even allowed to form Spain as an Iberian union, it should keep its ideas rather than adopt the latter's. etc. 1 culture group = 1 idea set would be way too simplistic, and the material we got so far says it doesnt work that way anyhow.
To be clear, I'm not saying that a culture group should get a specific set of ideas. That'd be awfully boring. Although, it would serve well to set each group apart from the others. Instead, I'm arguing that the cultural groups should probably have something of a theme, although that'd be based more on geography than culture. Luckily the two usually go hand-in-hand. As for unique Novgorod NIs: "The Russian idea set is common to all countries that have Russian as their primary culture, as our major goal is to get one united Russia – the state that forms it is not as important. We are still debating whether Novgorod should be unique or not; it is a major player in the Russian theater, but also has many attributes that distinguish it from principalities like Muscovy and Kiev." While I'd prefer a separate NI set for Novgorod, although I think one or two in the existing Russian list are a must. Namely the Siberian Frontier, and the Oprichina that reduces soldier costs. Other NIs should probably be based on trade and diplomacy, although maybe the tax and production buffs in the Russian list would also be nice.
In the case of Portugal/Castille/Aragon, I also agree that they need different NIs, but they'd all be relatively naval, trade-oriented, or directed at the colonies. Their geography simply demands it.