National Ideas revision to make them more unique and make use of new effects

[Me_]

Some thoughts on spicing up some old National Ideas

Burgundy

Promote the Estates General – why exactly does this one give mercenaries, anyway?
To make it more fitting, add an extra effect effect - +10% Nobles loyalty

Integrate the Towns in the Estates General
Add extra effect – Merchants loalty +10%

This combined would give Burgundy an uniqe position of being able to utilize estates better.

Milan

The Age of the Condottieri need I explain?
Add Possible Condottieri +20%

Rulership through Enlightened Principals doesn't this sound like an advisor idea, plusI admit, I hate -10% stability
Replace with +1 available advisors and -10% advisor cost

Florence/Tuscany

Condottieri again, need I explain?
Add Possible Condottieri +20%

Italian minors

Italian Condottieri once again, need I explain?
Add Possible Condottieri +20%

Aragon

Consolidation of the Estates because I hate -10% stability cost filler ideas
add +5% Nobles Clergy and Merchants loyalty

Oman

Any idea, really as they are overall focused on sea
Add Global Ship Trade Power +10%

Mughals

The Jagir and Mansabdari Systems
Add -5% liberty desire on same continent to encourage them to have vassals

Control over the Clergy
Replace with -10% state maintenance cost, because some big nation should make use of this and -10% reducing war exhaustion cost is utter crap

Zaporozhie

Hetmanate
+5% Cossack discipline I don't actually know if this effect exists.

Persia

Support the Qizilbash
Add war taxes cost -10% should make early Persia a bit mor threatening

Korea

Geobukseon
Add global naval engagement modifier +5%, bacause just 5% durability is crap

Ceylon

Pearl of the Indian Ocean
Add placed merchant power +5, because someone should be using this modifier and it would be too powerful in Europe

 

[HRErceg]

Aragon

Consolidation of the Estates because I hate -10% stability cost filler ideas
add +5% Nobles Clergy and Merchants loyalty

I think this should reduce estate influence by 5-10%

 

[grommile]

I think this should reduce estate influence by 5-10%

National Ideas are bonuses. A flat reduction to estate influence is not actually a bonus.

 

[Me_]

Some additional ideas

Naples infamously poor ideas

Crush the Power of the Barons
Add Harsh treatment cost - 20%

Bosnia, Lorraine (for some reason both have identically named idea)

Flexible diplomacy
Add Rival change cost -20%

Sokoto

Fulani Jihads
Add warscore cost vs other religions -10%

 

[Trin Tragula]

Will keep en eye here for ideas. We often update old ideas with new effects in fact but I am sure there are more we could start using.
I would stay away from estate effects though (at least as an only effect) given the dlc lock.

Naples infamously poor ideas

These were actually rewritten already in a recent patch.

 

[Vulkandrache]

Most of these seems woefully unimpressive.

I hate -10% stability cost filler ideas

There is a big difference between paying 100 or paying 60 for Stab.

Especially if you want to make tradeoffs like

-10% stability
Replace with +1 available advisors and -10% advisor cost

Nope. Available Advisors used to be ok, nowadays its useless. And the 10% money saves pittance amounts.

 

[Trin Tragula]

Yeah I'm more interested in previously unused new or rare effects that could be used.
I don't see us changing effects just because

 

[Overgreen]

I would like a model thats more similar to hoi4. A focus tree where all nations has 4 focus trees to choose national traditions and ideas from (economy, military, domestic policies, international policies).
That would enable many different ways to play every country

 

[Me_]

Most of these seems woefully unimpressive.

You are free to contribute, if you can. This is the suggestion forum, after all.

There is a big difference between paying 100 or paying 60 for Stab.

If my math is correct 100 -10% is 90, not 60, and what I hate is how common this idea is, not that is weak.

Yeah I'm more interested in previously unused new or rare effects that could be used.
I don't see us changing effects just because

While we're add it, how about using the modifier for monthly militarized society in the modifier Prussia gets for finishing its missions (prussian_ambition). In fact, any nation or nation group that has specific resource and specific mission could be rewarded with that resource for those missions.
Another example, there is a Dutch mission to convert to Reformed (embrace_the_reformation) which rewards one with increased_innovativeness modifier. How about also making if add X fervor.

 

[CharlesII]

I would like a model thats more similar to hoi4. A focus tree where all nations has 4 focus trees to choose national traditions and ideas from (economy, military, domestic policies, international policies).
That would enable many different ways to play every country

This would be really cool except that most countries lack ideas in the first place, let alone if you had to make each one have four idea sets worth.

 

[Overgreen]

Every 3 ideas completed unlock a ability to pick one national idea with bonus in either military, economy, domestic policies or international policies. We can also have the traditional admin, diplo and military
In that scenario you have a total of 7 NI when you have maxed 3 ideas groups, like today, but those are picked through the game depending on which flavour you to add to your country.
Go for western europe conquer as aragon, brittany or portugal. Colonization wide with neapel, scotland or north african minor. Great science and economy with brandenburg, sweden or hungary. Being a diplomatic powerhouse with poland, russia or ottoman.
And so on..

 

[FleetingRain]

Will keep en eye here for ideas. We often update old ideas with new effects in fact but I am sure there are more we could start using.
I would stay away from estate effects though (at least as an only effect) given the dlc lock.



These were actually rewritten already in a recent patch.

What if we offer two bonuses (one for Cossacks and another without it), like Development Cost/Goods Produced Modifier in a bajillion NI sets?


EDIT--Oh nvm you already said so and I can't read

 

[CharlesII]

Every 3 ideas completed unlock a ability to pick one national idea with bonus in either military, economy, domestic policies or international policies. We can also have the traditional admin, diplo and military
In that scenario you have a total of 7 NI when you have maxed 3 ideas groups, like today, but those are picked through the game depending on which flavour you to add to your country.
Go for western europe conquer as aragon, brittany or portugal. Colonization wide with neapel, scotland or north african minor. Great science and economy with brandenburg, sweden or hungary. Being a diplomatic powerhouse with poland, russia or ottoman.
And so on..

What if it was something like for each idea group you finish, you get an idea (depending on the category of the idea group) on top of your NI?

 

[FleetingRain]

Burgundy

Promote the Estates General – why exactly does this one give mercenaries, anyway?
To make it more fitting, add an extra effect effect - +10% Nobles loyalty[

Integrate the Towns in the Estates General
Add extra effect – Merchants loalty +10%

This combined would give Burgundy an unique position of being able to utilize estates better.

I'd nitpick it a bit and go with

-The Compagnies d'Ordonnance: -25% Mercenary Maintenance, +25% Available Mercenaries
-Promote the Estates General: +10% National Tax Modifier / +10% Church Loyalty (Cossacks DLC), +10% Nobility Loyalty (Cossacks DLC)
-Integrate the Towns in the Estates General: +10% Trade Efficiency, +10% Burghers Loyalty (Cossacks DLC)

Move the Extra Mercs to the first idea and nerf it a bit; add a +10% Tax like France's NI for non-DLC players and replace with loyalty to both Church and Nobles for those with the DLC; and then add Burghers loyalty in the third one.

Milan

The Age of the Condottieri need I explain?
Add Possible Condottieri +20%

Florence/Tuscany

Condottieri again, need I explain?
Add Possible Condottieri +20%

Italian minors

Italian Condottieri once again, need I explain?
Add Possible Condottieri +20%

Actually, doesn't Available Mercenaries affect the number of available condotierri? So the latter is a watered-down version of the former (kinda like Light Ship Combat Ability X Ship Trade Power), and the flavor texts for those NIs do suggest they not only had bigger condotierri but hired a higher number of mercenaries.

Aragon

Consolidation of the Estates because I hate -10% stability cost filler ideas
add +5% Nobles Clergy and Merchants loyalty

Yeah, -10% Stab Cost for non-DLC and 5% Estates Loyalty for DLC owners is good imo.

Zaporozhie

Hetmanate
+5% Cossack discipline I don't actually know if this effect exists.

I don't think it does yet; besides, the Hetmanate idea doesn't seem to match a military bonus, what with their talk of freedom and no aristocrats and whatnot. They do deserve some Discipline bonus somewhere though, even if it's Merc Discipline.

Persia

Support the Qizilbash
Add war taxes cost -10% should make early Persia a bit mor threatening

"Support the Qizilbash" should be a decision and another flavor NI should get its place imo, but that's out of the scope of this thread. Manpower and Wartaxes Cost are good, yes.

Korea

Geobukseon
Add global naval engagement modifier +5%, bacause just 5% durability is crap

Ship Durability isn't really crap, I remember someone's post explaining it works in weird ways so it's doubly as effective (it would be like 10% Land Discipline). Extra Naval Engagement wouldn't hurt though, even if I'd rather have Naval Morale (dude, dragon heads). Either are good in my view, but the former is rarer so why not.

Fulani Jihads
Add warscore cost vs other religions -10%

Honestly? I'd go with Deus Vult(tm) already. I mean, it's Sokoto, it's not the easiest tag to see about anywhere.

 

[Grand Historian]

These were actually rewritten already in a recent patch.

This may sound insane, but I kind of miss Naples' old NIs. Sure, the new ones are nice, but the old ones were like a car crash: you couldn't help but just watch.

 

[Me_]

Looking from the other side, starting with the modifiers

Native uprising chance and Native assimilation are only used by France, I'm cool with very unique NI, but maybe at least one more nation could use this. I would sggest one of the Natives, perhaps the Iroqui, as they were big on peacefuly adding nearby tribes to the federation

Administrative efficiency is Yuan-only This is a very sought-after modifier and I think it's cool to have this as a reward for restoring Mongol China, but how about using it as a reward for some other ambitious unification or for some nation that started very small but ended quite big, like Taungu.

core_decay_on_your_own is something given only by absolutism, but perhaps some nations could use it. I'm thinking about client states in particular, as they are always created on foreign cores.

Envoy travel time is only used by Brazil, Yuan and two group in Africa. I think it could see some use for nations that are more-or-less isolated from the big scene, like Inca (once you form it and claim your cores, everyone left becomes distant).

Naval leader fire is surprisingly, a Dutch-only effect. Some other naval+focused nations could use it. And noone has Naval Leader Shock or Naval Leader Siege.

I would stay away from estate effects though (at least as an only effect) given the dlc lock.

My thoughts as well, that's why I said "add", instead of "replace".

 

[Grand Historian]

My thoughts as well, that's why I said "add", instead of "replace".

People would complain regardless.

And quite frankly, influence can be just as much of a nerf as a buff.

 

[Krebsig]

Cool ideas, will keep an eye on this thread and hope we can see some of these changes in Eu4 soon

 

[Me_]

People would complain regardless.

And quite frankly, influence can be just as much of a nerf as a buff.

What are you talking about, I clearly wrote "loyalty", not "influence" and loyalty is always a buff.

 

[Grand Historian]

What are you talking about, I clearly wrote "loyalty", not "influence" and loyalty is always a buff.

Ah, you're right. My bad.