National Ideas and Coring Costs

[Brawler]

You'd think there would be a cap on coring cost eg 999admin points since it is not possible to core otherwise (with western tech). You can wait 5 years, war again then request they remove their core but aside from being tedious does that even work? Alternatively you could declare straight away then pay 300adm to boost your stab back up then core it after forcing them to revoke core if forcing them to revoke core removes the coring cost penalty. If there are no cores on a province does it revert to colony status?

 

[Incompetent]

I don't mind a few areas being "uncorable wastelands" like Hungary and North Africa, but I really get ticked off at Local Nobility nations.

Local nobility is fair enough I think - it's a choice made by that country to make itself a less appealing target for conquest. They pay for it by having to take a relatively weak idea group.

The automatic 'keep out' signs on Hungary though do a poor job of modelling the real history of the area. In reality, the area was unstable mainly because it was the front line between competing powers (Ottomans and Habsburgs, also Poland to some extent) and constantly fought over, not because of the special resilience of the Hungarians to outside control (as opposed to say the Serbs or Greeks).

 

[Emmanuel_M]

Local nobility is fair enough I think - it's a choice made by that country to make itself a less appealing target for conquest. They pay for it by having to take a relatively weak idea group.

The automatic 'keep out' signs on Hungary though do a poor job of modelling the real history of the area. In reality, the area was unstable mainly because it was the front line between competing powers (Ottomans and Habsburgs, also Poland to some extent) and constantly fought over, not because of the special resilience of the Hungarians to outside control (as opposed to say the Serbs or Greeks).

Yes and no

Hungary was a buffer state between austria and the ottomans, like belgium was supposed to be between France and germany. There is currently no "existential threat in your backyard/hinterland" casus belli to reflect that. Basically a conquest of hungary, if not for the extra core cost, should trigger either a crusade agains tthe turks or a jihad in austria. My feeling is that an "hinterland" system would be both realistic and historically accurate. Hinterland countries would be "buffer" coutnries whose aggression would provoke extra negative relations modifier to all other neighboring major powers. Mechanically, making an additional -100 relations pealty (cleaning @-2/year) and a CB against for any major power against another major power warring against a country whose annexion would create a common border between non-touching countries would be a welcome addition.

With the existing tools, the "don't-core-me" NI is both reasonnable, "vraisemblable" (aka doesn't shatter the suspension of disbielief while still keeping reasonnable simulationnist characterisics), and achieving it's goal (making the balkans harder to cross). So, appart for a "holy war" CB followed by tricky to balance "lust for war" modifiers (aimed at punishing crossing the border), what do you propose ?

 

[SweetHalcyHS]

I stilll don't like the "don't-core-me" NIs. I feel they should, instead, give +Coring duation, as well as some minimum RR for all non-owned core provinces. Simply ramping up the cost leads to ridiculous situations, as mentioned, that some provinces cannot be cored at all.

 

[Talq]

Yes and no

Hungary was a buffer state between austria and the ottomans, like belgium was supposed to be between France and germany. There is currently no "existential threat in your backyard/hinterland" casus belli to reflect that. Basically a conquest of hungary, if not for the extra core cost, should trigger either a crusade agains tthe turks or a jihad in austria. My feeling is that an "hinterland" system would be both realistic and historically accurate. Hinterland countries would be "buffer" coutnries whose aggression would provoke extra negative relations modifier to all other neighboring major powers. Mechanically, making an additional -100 relations pealty (cleaning @-2/year) and a CB against for any major power against another major power warring against a country whose annexion would create a common border between non-touching countries would be a welcome addition.

With the existing tools, the "don't-core-me" NI is both reasonnable, "vraisemblable" (aka doesn't shatter the suspension of disbielief while still keeping reasonnable simulationnist characterisics), and achieving it's goal (making the balkans harder to cross). So, appart for a "holy war" CB followed by tricky to balance "lust for war" modifiers (aimed at punishing crossing the border), what do you propose ?

There is a certain amount of dark amusement to be gained about people blathering on about how crusades and jihads are totally going to be called on this and that (as if they have meaning over and above 'hey guys, lets fight them infidel Turks'), given the significance of the date THE GAME STARTS ON. Austrian animosity to the Ottomans arose in part because they were an expansionist power bordering them (& in part because the Hapsburgs claimed the Hungarian throne, but most of its territory was occupied). The religious element was incidental to this - Austria would have been equally upset if a Christian Ottoman-like power had behaved the same way.

The main problem with the 'dont core me' penalty on Hungary (in particular) is its implications. A nation historically removed from the map is too frequently not removed from the map because nobody wants to take territory from it (and if you did, its nothing special - just spend extra admin points and its as valuable as any other non-accepted culture province). If you wanted 'realism' you would need to find another way.

 

[Knightfall52]

Higher cost to core tradition could be changed to 200-300% higher costs for culture flip while the culture should have a higher revolt risk.

I Assume the intended design is more like 'its easy to take and hard to keep' not extremely costly to take but pretty normal after you pay the steep price.