National Ideagroups - 24th of October

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Wizzington

Game Director (Victoria 3)
Paradox Staff
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Nov 15, 2007
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Release is getting close and we still have lots of ideas left to post, so today you're getting five of them!


Chimu

Traditions
National Unrest: -1.00
National Tax Modifier: +10.0%
  1. Inter-Valley Irrigation: Goods Produced Nationally: +10.0%
  2. Ciudadelas: Fort Defense: +10.0%
  3. Split Inheritance: Build Cost: -10.0%
  4. Watchfulness of the Moon: National Spy Defense: +20.0%
  5. Artisan Relocations: Possible Advisors: +1
  6. Specialized Economy: Global Trade Power: +10.0%
  7. The Mi'ta: National Manpower Modifier: +10.0%
Ambition
Yearly Prestige: +1.00


Muisca

Traditions
Domestic Trade Power: +25.0%
Fort Defense: +15.0%
  1. Zipa and Zaque: Stability Cost Modifier: -10.0%
  2. El Dorado: Yearly Prestige: +1.00
  3. Gueches Wrestling: Yearly Army Tradition: +0.50
  4. The Tale of Bochica: National Manpower Modifier: +15.0%
  5. Emeralds Barter: National Tax Modifier: +10.0%
  6. Terrace Farming: Goods Produced Nationally: +10.0%
  7. Consuetudinary Law: Yearly Legitimacy: +1.00
Ambition
National Unrest: -1.00


Chachapoya

Traditions
Build Cost: -10.0%
Possible Advisors: +1
  1. Warriors of the Clouds: Morale of Armies: +10.0%
  2. Legacy of Kuelap: Building Power Cost: -10.0%
  3. Summit Fortresses: Fort Defense: +10.0%
  4. Women Diplomacy: Diplomatic Reputation: +1.00
  5. Chachapoyan Endurance: Hostile Core-Creation Cost on us: +50.0%
  6. Purunmachus: Yearly Prestige: +1.00
  7. Cloud Forests: Attrition for Enemies: +1.00
Ambition
Production Efficiency: +10.0%


Teutonic Order

Traditions
Cavalry Combat Ability: +10.0%
Discipline: +5.0%
  1. Reform the Army: Infantry Cost: -10.0%, Cavalry Cost: -10.0%
  2. Recruit Peasants: Manpower Recovery Speed: +15.0%
  3. Adjust our Infantry Tactics: Infantry Combat Ability: +10.0%
  4. Assume Religious Authority: National Unrest: -1.00, Missionary Strength: +2.0%
  5. Expand the Marches: Fort Defense: +15.0%
  6. Promote Prussian Bishops: Missionaries: +1
  7. One State, One Religion: Tolerance of the True Faith: +1.00
Ambition
Technology Cost: -5.0%


Bulgaria

Traditions
Merchants: +1
Core-Creation Cost: -10.0%
  1. Confirm The Bulgarian Boyars: Stability Cost Modifier: -10.0%
  2. Root Out the Heresies: Missionary Strength vs Heretics: +2.0%
  3. Unity Before Feuds: National Unrest: -1.00
  4. Reform The Army: Infantry Cost: -10.0%
  5. Reform The Bulgarian Church: Yearly Prestige: +1.00
  6. Military Flexibility: Morale of Armies: +10.0%
  7. Third Rome: Yearly Legitimacy: +1.00
Ambition
Infantry Combat Ability: +15.0%
 
Last edited:
I like TO ideas, but have one suggestion for them.
In one of the early NIs TO should get some bonuses to papal influence and/or diplomatic reputation.

Reasoning:
Teutonic Order State was in the late middle ages the only state to have a permanent 'ambassador' in Vatican, they also used both protection of Pope and HR Emperor to receive more volunteers on Prussian 'crusades'. In fact, even over 30 years after the Union of Krewo (Lithuania converting to Catholic in 1386) they still portrayed Lithuanians as barbarian pagans and were successfull in their propaganda.
During the Thirteen Years War (1454-1466) between Poland and TO, they received big support from Pope, even though the direct reason of war was that citizens of Gdansk (Danzig) and other cities of TO State rebelled against the Teutonic high taxes and seeked protection from Polish king.

For a while I can't refer to any proper historical sources on this topic, may search some within the next few days if needed.
 
Hmmm I`be been wondering for some time after all of those new national ideagroups started to appear ... Could Paradox increase fun factor by letting us to maintain our original Ideas when Tag-changing f.e. Teuton into Prussia, just as a popup option while switching? What do you guys think?
 
Hmmm I`be been wondering for some time after all of those new national ideagroups started to appear ... Could Paradox increase fun factor by letting us to maintain our original Ideas when Tag-changing f.e. Teuton into Prussia, just as a popup option while switching? What do you guys think?

But surely, by keeping the ideas and thus ethos of the Teutons, you're still the Teutonic Order, only with Prussia's borders. If you want to be Prussia, you have to be Prussia.
 
Chimu ideas are rather mediocre, of course everything is better than generics but I don't particularly like this set.

Muisca and Chachapoya - a bit better and much better than generics but also not mine favourite.

Teutonic Order looks VERY strong and I really like it, now Poland and Lithuania will struggle against it much more.


On the other hand i ADORE Bulgaria :D :D Especially their traditions are exceptionally good!
 
But surely, by keeping the ideas and thus ethos of the Teutons, you're still the Teutonic Order, only with Prussia's borders. If you want to be Prussia, you have to be Prussia.

I would, for the sake of counterargument, present the case of Novgorod keeping its national ideas when it forms Russia (which I would actually prefer it did not do...)
 
I would, for the sake of counterargument, present the case of Novgorod keeping its national ideas when it forms Russia (which I would actually prefer it did not do...)

Yeah, I hate this case too. I would love to form Russia with Novgorod but while Novgorod's ideas are nice for medium - sized trade country, they become atrocious when you form Russia <of course when compared with Russian Ideas>...
 
I would, for the sake of counterargument, present the case of Novgorod keeping its national ideas when it forms Russia (which I would actually prefer it did not do...)

Russia is a cultural union, and the norm for culture unions is that you do not change ideas when forming them. Italy, Byzantium, and Persia are exceptions to this. Prussia is just a formable nation, though.
 
Russia is a cultural union, and the norm for culture unions is that you do not change ideas when forming them. Italy, Byzantium, and Persia are exceptions to this. Prussia is just a formable nation, though.

That actually seems like a stronger argument for "Teutonic Order should keep its ideas when it forms Prussia, Novgorod shouldn't when it forms Russia" than the other way around. Nothing about the "We're basically just changing our name so pbbbt" approach to tag-switching strikes me as warranting a complete alteration in one's national ethos, or at least certainly less so than "We're unifying an entire cultural group into a new nation." The latter seems like a much better rationale for adopting a new set of national ideas as you unite a broad culture.

Honestly, I don't even have a real problem with the former scenario allowing new national ideas, either. I just think that, if you're going to force an idea shift in one situation and not the other, it's not the situation that seems more appropriate to me. My real preference would be for a tag-shifter (like Novgorod > Russia, Teutonic Order > Prussia, Milan > Italy, etc.) to have the options of changing or preserving their national ideas, if the new tag normally has its own ideas.
 
That actually seems like a stronger argument for "Teutonic Order should keep its ideas when it forms Prussia, Novgorod shouldn't when it forms Russia" than the other way around. Nothing about the "We're basically just changing our name so pbbbt" approach to tag-switching strikes me as warranting a complete alteration in one's national ethos, or at least certainly less so than "We're unifying an entire cultural group into a new nation." The latter seems like a much better rationale for adopting a new set of national ideas as you unite a broad culture.

Honestly, I don't even have a real problem with the former scenario allowing new national ideas, either. I just think that, if you're going to force an idea shift in one situation and not the other, it's not the situation that seems more appropriate to me. My real preference would be for a tag-shifter (like Novgorod > Russia, Teutonic Order > Prussia, Milan > Italy, etc.) to have the options of changing or preserving their national ideas, if the new tag normally has its own ideas.

I don't think Prussia stopped being "Prussian" when it became the German Empire. They likely identified themselves as Germans onwards but they were still very Prussian in nature. Furthermore, when you get a large number of nations that're able to form a particular union (for example Germany), how do you decide whose idea set to use as that particular union's ideas? What about the HRE? That's a Germanic union that can be formed by any Catholic nation in the game.
 
Those Teuton ideas :eek:hmy:

I wonder if forming Prussia will still be an upgrade for TO, idea-wise...
 
Chimu ideas are rather mediocre, of course everything is better than generics but I don't particularly like this set.

Muisca and Chachapoya - a bit better and much better than generics but also not mine favourite.

Teutonic Order looks VERY strong and I really like it, now Poland and Lithuania will struggle against it much more.


On the other hand i ADORE Bulgaria :D :D Especially their traditions are exceptionally good!

Remember than you can form the Inca with those and Incan ideas are really strong.