National Ideagroups - 21st of October C - Athens

National Ideagroups - 21st of October C - Athens

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Athens

Traditions
+10% Defensiveness
-10% Stability Cost Modifier

  1. Dominus Athenarum: +1 Legitimacy
  2. Athenian Openness: -15% Accepted Culture Threshold
  3. Athenian Pragmatism: +1 Diplomatic Reputation
  4. Revive the Latin Greece: +1 Prestige
  5. Latin Contracts: -1 Global Unrest
  6. Preserve Archbishop of Athens: +1% Missionary Strength
  7. Athenian Army Reform: +5% Infantry Power, +5% Artillery Power


Ambition
+10% Land Morale
 

Umbosch

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Athens

Traditions
+10% Defensiveness
-10% Stability Cost Modifier

  1. Dominus Athenarum: +1 Legitimacy
  2. Athenian Openness: -15% Accepted Culture Threshold
  3. Athenian Pragmatism: +1 Diplomatic Reputation
  4. Revive the Latin Greece: +1 Prestige
  5. Latin Contracts: -1 Global Unrest
  6. Preserve Archbishop of Athens: +1% Missionary Strength
  7. Athenian Army Reform: +5% Infantry Power, +5% Artillery Power


Ambition
+10% Land Morale
What is the historical justification for this? They was from 1453–1832 AC under control of Ottomans.
 

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What is the historical justification for this? They was from 1453–1832 AC under control of Ottomans.
Remember the game started in 1444. The Duchy of Athens was still existent until 1458.
 

Galu

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"Athenian Pragmatism: +1 Diplomatic Reputation" is this for real +1 reputation for all of these new NIs ? or is it mistype and should be relations ? Cause +1 dip rep is in another words "we coulnd`t invent worst NI so here you have it" ;-)

Exept that pretty nice ideas
 

Wiz

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"Athenian Pragmatism: +1 Diplomatic Reputation" is this for real +1 reputation for all of these new NIs ? or is it mistype and should be relations ? Cause +1 dip rep is in another words "we coulnd`t invent worst NI so here you have it" ;-)
+1 diprep in 1.8 is about equivalent to +3 in 1.7 and also affects diploannex speed now.
 

AndreiTLC

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Would have been nice,if all these bonuses also had maluses.
 

birincikalite

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Would have been nice,if all these bonuses also had maluses.
Negative effects on ideas besides positive effects do you mean? Hell yeah, would love to see that. But probably too much work and not an urgent need so probably won't happen because it would mean changing the way all the idea sets work.
 

oblio-

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Would have been nice,if all these bonuses also had maluses.
It seems that this isn't desired. I personally consider that it would add more depth if some bonuses were stronger but they had downsides as well, but I don't know any national idea which is a two-edged sword. Imagine something like:

30% cavalry combat ability
+2% revolt risk
Aka - "careful, you're playing with fire over there!"

Actually I can't really name 1 stat in-game that has both a positive and a negative effect. What we have instead are opposing stats or stats that slide from negative to positive effects. The only one that I know of which could swing both ways, theoretically, is mercantilism. But in-game I think it only has a positive effect.

As far as national ideas are concerned I suppose I get why they don't want it - because you have absolutely no control over it: are you going to skip picking idea groups and filling them in order to avoid the downsides? But this point only applies to absolutely new players: anyone who has played more than 1 game will know to look at his nation's ideas before starting the game and then trying to pick idea groups to help him in his nation's context (including its national ideas)
 

Pinpinolo

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It seems that this isn't desired. I personally consider that it would add more depth if some bonuses were stronger but they had downsides as well, but I don't know any national idea which is a two-edged sword.
Castile/Spain's second idea gives +2% missionary strength and -1 heretic and heathen tolerance.

It's the only double-edged idea in the game as far as I know.

http://www.eu4wiki.com/National_ideas#Spain_.2F_Castile
 

Galu

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+1 diprep in 1.8 is about equivalent to +3 in 1.7 and also affects diploannex speed now.
Oh, that changes a lot +3 can gain you sth now, so I assume +1 will in 1.8 as well. About dipannex, how will it work in 1.8 (exept mentioned before change in speed )?

As a side note I do appriciate your work on this forum Wiz. More information - less speculation - less unrest(s) ;-)
 

Galu

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Would have been nice,if all these bonuses also had maluses.
It could be a new mechanic to policies. For ideas this isn`t desired cause this is not a player decision, exept picking a country/idea set. It`s not actual decision. In policies however this would have sense and should add dynamic to the game. At the same time MP cost for policies should be removed
 

oblio-

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Mortheim

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It seems that this isn't desired. I personally consider that it would add more depth if some bonuses were stronger but they had downsides as well, but I don't know any national idea which is a two-edged sword. Imagine something like:

30% cavalry combat ability
+2% revolt risk
Aka - "careful, you're playing with fire over there!"

Actually I can't really name 1 stat in-game that has both a positive and a negative effect. What we have instead are opposing stats or stats that slide from negative to positive effects. The only one that I know of which could swing both ways, theoretically, is mercantilism. But in-game I think it only has a positive effect.

As far as national ideas are concerned I suppose I get why they don't want it - because you have absolutely no control over it: are you going to skip picking idea groups and filling them in order to avoid the downsides? But this point only applies to absolutely new players: anyone who has played more than 1 game will know to look at his nation's ideas before starting the game and then trying to pick idea groups to help him in his nation's context (including its national ideas)
Reminds me of good old sliders...I really miss them.
 

PhroX

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It seems that this isn't desired. I personally consider that it would add more depth if some bonuses were stronger but they had downsides as well, but I don't know any national idea which is a two-edged sword. Imagine something like:

30% cavalry combat ability
+2% revolt risk
Aka - "careful, you're playing with fire over there!"

Actually I can't really name 1 stat in-game that has both a positive and a negative effect. What we have instead are opposing stats or stats that slide from negative to positive effects. The only one that I know of which could swing both ways, theoretically, is mercantilism. But in-game I think it only has a positive effect.

As far as national ideas are concerned I suppose I get why they don't want it - because you have absolutely no control over it: are you going to skip picking idea groups and filling them in order to avoid the downsides? But this point only applies to absolutely new players: anyone who has played more than 1 game will know to look at his nation's ideas before starting the game and then trying to pick idea groups to help him in his nation's context (including its national ideas)
I'd like to see some more "trade off" type options for things like idea groups, but I agree they shouldn't be NIs. Making such a trade-off should be a choice.
 

DanubianCossak

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Finally! Now recreating the Greek Kingdom will be a lot more fun :D
Not with Athens you wont :) Remember, Italian crusaders. Greece requires Greek culture. That is unless you culture flip.