National idea swap on religion change

[TheMeInTeam]

As far as I'm aware, this is new to 1.8:



You'll notice Mewat is showing Rajput ideas (you'll also notice that I have just badly punished the Timurids for joining a coalition and declaring on me as they're about to be shattered even worse, but that's not the point here). In previous patches, this sometimes happened where if you changed culture or reformed a horde, the nation selection would show new ideas but in-game they'd be the same as you started.

That's not the case here. If you start as Mewat in 1444, you'll see they have Indian Sultanate ideas. If I open this save, I do in fact have Rajput ideas; the only step that changed this was the swap to Hindu (and later Sikh).

So, 1.8 changed the logic for idea group updates. This opens some new possibilities, and makes me wonder for example if culture drifting Gwalior into Maratha culture gives them Marathi ideas (in 1.7 and before, it did not do so).

In this case, I'm not too fussed since Rajput ideas were buffed from terrible (if better than generic) to respectable, having stuff like 10% manpower recovery, 10% cavalry combat, and the very rare +1 leader fire along with 5% discipline rather than 2.5%. It's not an elite set by any means, but it's playable and doesn't lose too much to Indian Sultanate other than the tolerance. Still, it was an unexpected outcome for sure. Does anybody know of other religion/culture changes altering NIs?

 

[josh127]

Forced a revolt out and it does change on the swap to Hindu when you accept demands. It shows on the tooltip even if not in patch notes.

I think that confirms when it happened as well as that it's WAD even if not in patch notes. Would be nice though to know why it happens here so that we would know in other areas of the world if it could be a problem (or maybe a solution).

 

[Sousuke123]

Snip

It's not a new thing in 1.8 it was in previous patches as well. Given you don't have unique ideas, If you're Muslim in India you have Indian Sultanate Ideas if you're Hindu you have Rajput ones.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

It's not a new thing in 1.8 it was in previous patches as well. Given you don't have unique ideas, If you're Muslim in India you have Indian Sultanate Ideas if you're Hindu you have Rajput ones.

In previous patches, I have gone Hindu deliberately and retained the Indian sultanate ideas.

Does this work for Gwalior now then? I'll have to test w/ console commands when I can do so.

 

[Sousuke123]

In previous patches, I have gone Hindu deliberately and retained the Indian sultanate ideas.

Does this work for Gwalior now then? I'll have to test w/ console commands when I can do so.

I could've sworn i saw someone playing as Malwa and having Rajput ones, but maybe as you say it was only in start up menu

For Gwalior still doesn't work

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Darn, that would have been nice. I guess the only way to be a Marathi nation from 1444 is still to tank Vijay into rebels and let them occupy your stuff + Bahmanis, then release as a vassal + play, not that those ideas are god tier anyway. Gwalior's best bet is Mughals or a CN then still :/.

 

[josh127]

Loaded up 1.7 and tried it. If you accept demands your ideas stay the same. If you let them break the country the ideas change. For Delhi that means generic ideas though.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Loaded up 1.7 and tried it. If you accept demands your ideas stay the same. If you let them break the country the ideas change. For Delhi that means generic ideas though.

Ah, so this is a function of how accepting and enforcing now do the same thing unlike before, but I never realized before that getting broken caused something different in this case.

 

[josh127]

The other advantage now is that you can accept immediately. In the 1.7 I had to wait for them to siege me out. Also, as was mentioned by Sousuke123, Jaunpur and Bengal with their unique ideas did not change idea groups.

 

[Sousuke123]

Darn, that would have been nice. I guess the only way to be a Marathi nation from 1444 is still to tank Vijay into rebels and let them occupy your stuff + Bahmanis, then release as a vassal + play, not that those ideas are god tier anyway. Gwalior's best bet is Mughals or a CN then still :/.

Unfortunately it seems the only way, I tried bankrupt myself and still it didn't work and the more annoying is they still are left with generic ones, at least giving them Rajput would nice

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Unfortunately it seems the only way, I tried bankrupt myself and still it didn't work and the more annoying is they still are left with generic ones, at least giving them Rajput would nice

I wonder what happens if you culture drift Rajput then go Sunni --> back lol. I have a few things to test when I get home I guess.

 

[Sousuke123]

I wonder what happens if you culture drift Rajput then go Sunni --> back lol. I have a few things to test when I get home I guess.

Did as you proposed Rajput->Sunni->Hindu and still didn't work

I checked NI and they are still the same

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Lame, but thanks for beating me to the punch . I will try a few more things myself but this looks like it's less flexible than I was hoping when I realized I got an idea swap; it seems the Rajput thing is pretty unusual.

 

[josh127]

In the rebel_types file it appears to be this line:

		if = {
			limit = {
				has_idea_group = indian_muslim_ideas 
			}
			swap_free_idea_group = yes
		}

"has_idea_group" and "swap_free_idea_group" are only used for hindu sikh rebels. I assume this means that when you go Sunni you don't get the indian muslim ideas, therefore, you can't convert back and get a new idea group?

 

[Sousuke123]

In the rebel_types file it appears to be this line:

		if = {
			limit = {
				has_idea_group = indian_muslim_ideas 
			}
			swap_free_idea_group = yes
		}

"has_idea_group" and "swap_free_idea_group" are only used for hindu sikh rebels. I assume this means that when you go Sunni you don't get the indian muslim ideas, therefore, you can't convert back and get a new idea group?

Yep, you need to have from the start Indian Sultanate NI otherwise it won't switch to Rajput.

 

[Santoes]

I wonder if Multan would change to Punjab NI if forced to Hindu?