National Idea Group Elimination

[Sukramo]

Uhm guys? How on earth have you not included the absurdly OP Manchu ideas? By FAR the best ones in the game.

1: 20% less cost for maintanaince? Very good.

2:+10% National manpower modifier AND -20% Core-creation cost. Just.Wow!

3: -10% Technology cost. They actually get the French tech boost but get it WAY before France does. Holy smokes.

4: +5% Discipline. Another solid millitary idea.

5. +15% Cavalry combat ability. More Millitary.

6. +20% Manpower recovery speed. Wow! Where do I sign??

7. -2 National unrest. Decent. England only gets -1.

8. -10% Stability cost modifier. A bad idea.

9. +1 Land leader shock. Amazing finisher!

So yeah, I deem this thread a failure de to failing to include the best idea group in the game on the list.

 

[Zak Preston]

France: 25 (27-2)
Ottomans: 27
Castille: 19 - 2 = 17
Brandenburg: 29
Muscovy: 22 (+1)
Poland: 35 (34+1)
Japan: 11

Dead:
8. Sweden
9. Teutonic Order
10. Austria
11. Netherlands
12. Byzantium
13. Papal States
14. Hungary
15. Ming
16. England
17. Portugal
18. Denmark
19. Burgundy

 

[Petrucci]

Uhm guys? How on earth have you not included the absurdly OP Manchu ideas? By FAR the best ones in the game.

1: 20% less cost for maintanaince? Very good.

2:+10% National manpower modifier AND -20% Core-creation cost. Just.Wow!

3: -10% Technology cost. They actually get the French tech boost but get it WAY before France does. Holy smokes.

4: +5% Discipline. Another solid millitary idea.

5. +15% Cavalry combat ability. More Millitary.

6. +20% Manpower recovery speed. Wow! Where do I sign??

7. -2 National unrest. Decent. England only gets -1.

8. -10% Stability cost modifier. A bad idea.

9. +1 Land leader shock. Amazing finisher!

So yeah, I deem this thread a failure de to failing to include the best idea group in the game on the list.

Because we are voting only ideas from 20 most played nations.


France: 23 (25-2)
Ottomans: 27
Castille: 18 (17+1)
Brandenburg: 29
Muscovy: 22
Poland: 35
Japan: 11

Dead:
8. Sweden
9. Teutonic Order
10. Austria
11. Netherlands
12. Byzantium
13. Papal States
14. Hungary
15. Ming
16. England
17. Portugal
18. Denmark
19. Burgundy

Die France die!
How often have you said that in your games?

 

[tobias.mb]

France: 23
Ottomans: 27
Castille: 16
Brandenburg: 29
Muscovy: 22
Poland: 36
Japan: 11

Dead:
8. Sweden
9. Teutonic Order
10. Austria
11. Netherlands
12. Byzantium
13. Papal States
14. Hungary
15. Ming
16. England
17. Portugal
18. Denmark
19. Burgundy

 

[Rubidium]

France: 23
Ottomans: 27
Castile: 18 (EDIT: Should be 17)
Brandenburg: 29
Muscovy: 20
Poland: 36
Japan: 11

Dead:
8. Sweden
9. Teutonic Order
10. Austria
11. Netherlands
12. Byzantium
13. Papal States
14. Hungary
15. Ming
16. England
17. Portugal
18. Denmark
19. Burgundy

Up Castile, because it's an excellent, front-loaded set that addresses the needs of the nation.

Down Muscovy, because throwing hordes of meh soldiers is less powerful these days (especially since the poor development/attrition means that Muscovy is poorly suited to use those stacks until well into the game).

 

[tobias.mb]

pretty sure castile should have 17

 

[Fluffy_Fishy]

France: 23
Ottomans: 27
Castile: 18
Brandenburg: 29
Muscovy: 20
Poland: 34
Japan: 12

Dead:
8. Sweden
9. Teutonic Order
10. Austria
11. Netherlands
12. Byzantium
13. Papal States
14. Hungary
15. Ming
16. England
17. Portugal
18. Denmark
19. Burgundy

 

[Rubidium]

pretty sure castile should have 17

Oops, yes it should.

 

[Frungy78]

France: 23
Ottomans: 27
Castile: 18
Brandenburg: 29
Muscovy: 18
Poland: 34
Japan: 13

Dead:
8. Sweden
9. Teutonic Order
10. Austria
11. Netherlands
12. Byzantium
13. Papal States
14. Hungary
15. Ming
16. England
17. Portugal
18. Denmark
19. Burgundy

Why does Japan need "synergy" when it has 10% discipline, -2 revolt risk, and 15% tax? The discipline alone is insane, the -2 RR is like having +2 TotTF and 2% missionary strength bundled together, and the tax alone is a huge boost to the economy.

Muscovy has lots of manpower, but no boosts to the army apart from .5 army tradition and a poor economy. Fur is great, but all of siberia is poor development so it doesn't help much.

 

[Maeki]

France: 23
Ottomans: 27
Castile: 17 (fixed)
Brandenburg: 29
Muscovy: 16 (18-2)
Poland: 35 (34+1)
Japan: 13

Dead:
8. Sweden
9. Teutonic Order
10. Austria
11. Netherlands
12. Byzantium
13. Papal States
14. Hungary
15. Ming
16. England
17. Portugal
18. Denmark
19. Burgundy

 

[Clausewitz_]

Uhm guys? How on earth have you not included the absurdly OP Manchu ideas? By FAR the best ones in the game.

1: 20% less cost for maintanaince? Very good.

2:+10% National manpower modifier AND -20% Core-creation cost. Just.Wow!

3: -10% Technology cost. They actually get the French tech boost but get it WAY before France does. Holy smokes.

4: +5% Discipline. Another solid millitary idea.

5. +15% Cavalry combat ability. More Millitary.

6. +20% Manpower recovery speed. Wow! Where do I sign??

7. -2 National unrest. Decent. England only gets -1.

8. -10% Stability cost modifier. A bad idea.

9. +1 Land leader shock. Amazing finisher!

So yeah, I deem this thread a failure de to failing to include the best idea group in the game on the list.

Edit: Please read the OP

 

[DogEggz]

France: 23
Ottomans: 27
Castile: 17
Brandenburg: 29
Muscovy: 14(-2) you need economy to support massive army, unfortunately muscovy is dirt poor
Poland: 35
Japan: 14 (+1) if not the fact japan is chinese tec group, japan can straight up beat everyone in Europe except Prussia and France

Dead:
8. Sweden
9. Teutonic Order
10. Austria
11. Netherlands
12. Byzantium
13. Papal States
14. Hungary
15. Ming
16. England
17. Portugal
18. Denmark
19. Burgundy

 

[Oddb@ll]

France: 23
Ottomans: 27
Castile: 17
Brandenburg: 30 (+1)
Muscovy: 14
Poland: 33 (-2)
Japan: 14

Dead:
8. Sweden
9. Teutonic Order
10. Austria
11. Netherlands
12. Byzantium
13. Papal States
14. Hungary
15. Ming
16. England
17. Portugal
18. Denmark
19. Burgundy

Vote for today.

 

[Phibs]

France: 23
Ottomans: 27
Castile: 15 (-2)
Brandenburg: 31 (+1)
Muscovy: 14
Poland: 33
Japan: 14

Dead:
8. Sweden
9. Teutonic Order
10. Austria
11. Netherlands
12. Byzantium
13. Papal States
14. Hungary
15. Ming
16. England
17. Portugal
18. Denmark
19. Burgundy

Another day, another vote, same as yesterday.

 

[MrOobling]

France: 23
Ottomans: 27
Castile: 16 (+1) The early military bonuses and the extra colonist is very useful.
Brandenburg: 31
Muscovy: 14
Poland: 33 (-2) I still dislike cavalry.
Japan: 14

Dead:
8. Sweden
9. Teutonic Order
10. Austria
11. Netherlands
12. Byzantium
13. Papal States
14. Hungary
15. Ming
16. England
17. Portugal
18. Denmark
19. Burgundy

 

[Oddb@ll]

France: 23
Ottomans: 27
Castile: 16 (+1) The early military bonuses and the extra colonist is very useful.
Brandenburg: 31
Muscovy: 14
Poland: 33 (-2) I still dislike cavalry.
Japan: 14

Dead:
8. Sweden
9. Teutonic Order
10. Austria
11. Netherlands
12. Byzantium
13. Papal States
14. Hungary
15. Ming
16. England
17. Portugal
18. Denmark
19. Burgundy

Poland should be at 31

 

[radiatoren]

France: 23
Ottomans: 27
Castile: 16
Brandenburg: 31
Muscovy: 15 (+1)
Poland: 31
Japan: 12 (-2)

Dead:
8. Sweden
9. Teutonic Order
10. Austria
11. Netherlands
12. Byzantium
13. Papal States
14. Hungary
15. Ming
16. England
17. Portugal
18. Denmark
19. Burgundy

Personally I like synergies since they are independent of a nations general position. I may not be taking synergies with idea-groups and policies enough into account, which makes me pursuadable by good arguments on that front.

And just a friendly poke at a few earier posts: Either you take all a countrys positions into account or you don't take it into account at all. Muscovy is in a dirt-poor area and cannot always support their forcelimit, but Japan is in a worse tech-group and on an island.
Either way, the task set out by the OP is "This is a judge of the ideas, not the overall strength.". Thus I dislike taking some parts of specific countries positions into account.

 

[FieldMedic]

France: 23
Ottomans: 27
Castile: 14 (-2)
Brandenburg: 31
Muscovy: 15
Poland: 32 (+1)
Japan: 12

Dead:
8. Sweden
9. Teutonic Order
10. Austria
11. Netherlands
12. Byzantium
13. Papal States
14. Hungary
15. Ming
16. England
17. Portugal
18. Denmark
19. Burgundy

Poland can into space?
Castile is good but her national ideas really dictate how you should play. If you're not pushing into North Africa or colonizing you're wasting almost half your national ideas.

 

[TheDenzian]

France: 23
Ottomans: 27
Castile: 14
Brandenburg: 32 (+1)
Muscovy: 13 (-2)
Poland: 32
Japan: 12

Dead:
8. Sweden
9. Teutonic Order
10. Austria
11. Netherlands
12. Byzantium
13. Papal States
14. Hungary
15. Ming
16. England
17. Portugal
18. Denmark
19. Burgundy

Once again, I give a point to Brandenburg and take two points away from Muscovy on account of Brandenburg assuredly being capable of beating Muscovy if they were to fight on an equal footing with regards to development, ideas groups, and so on.

Also, I'm surprised that Italy isn't a more played nation. Kind of a shame that it isn't, as it would have had my vote several times for its wonderful national ideas. Oh well.

Clauswitz_, do you have any ideas about what the next elimination game will be about, if there is one?

 

[Jack45]

France: 23
Ottomans: 27
Castile: 15 (+1)
Brandenburg: 32
Muscovy: 13
Poland: 30 (-2)
Japan: 12

Dead:
8. Sweden
9. Teutonic Order
10. Austria
11. Netherlands
12. Byzantium
13. Papal States
14. Hungary
15. Ming
16. England
17. Portugal
18. Denmark
19. Burgundy

Upvoting Castile because they have nice balanced ideas unlike many of the pure military ones here that are often unnecessary in single player games. Downvoting Poland because out of the remaining ideas I am least excited about them, especially as I dislike cavalry.

Edit: For next one you could do strongest starting position, easiest country (Portugal is easy but not strong), best flags, best colonial nations, best province, best trade node, best policies, best religion, best government form or something else